Risk Vs Reward 4 : Raúl Rodríguez

Aninder: We saw the smoke coming out like crazy. And we was, yeah, we got to fly there on the front. If you collapse and open really hard, for sure it will break. When it comes to learning the acro sport, as you said, you start

Raúl Rodríguez: with SIV maneuvers on a regular glider to know how it feels when it's not above your head. But how far does a high V glider go in the role of acro paragliding?

Hello everyone, welcome back to Paragliding Atlas. I am Aninder Singh and this time around we will be joined by a very special guest. This guy happens to be an inventor, a creator, an inspirer and most importantly a lover of paragliding. How often does it happen that we go out and say that there's an itch to invent something today? That I feel like I should revolutionize the thing that I'm doing or the sport or the field that I'm in. And There are a handful of men and women out there who are still challenging the status quo and trying to increase the fun factor while staying within the limits of flight envelope. And Raul Rodriguez is exactly one of them. He went out and believed in his way of life when

majority of the community was giving him shit for what he was doing. Imagine landing at a comp and 70% of the gaggle or 90% of the pilots there just being pissed by you saying that you're flying very dangerously, you're going to kill yourself and blah, blah, blah. And then, yet, regardless of all of these challenges, you have the will, you have the motivation, you have the belief, most importantly, to say that, you know what, thank you for your concern, but I'll keep going. And eventually, because he did not give up back then when he started, and, you know, as you will find out in the show, that he found a really good bunch of friends and made a beautiful tribe that went around the world,

Thank you. he was able to create something so unique that it has essentially become one of the most important parts of the sport that we

Raúl Rodríguez: practice. Inventing acro wasn't easy, and streamlining it into the main teaching and trying to make a living out of it was a world only existing in dreams. But, as we all know, if you dream hard enough, If you believe hard enough, you'll find a way to achieve it hard enough.

I don't know if the last part made sense or not grammatically. But yeah, dream, believe, achieve is the mantra. And Raul Rodriguez seems to have lived it to the fullest. So without further ado, here's presenting episode number four in the series Risk vs. Reward with one of the true legends and a great person to talk to, Raul Rodriguez. I hope you like it. And if you do, please consider dropping in a like or a subscribe or even better rating. Yeah, that was a call to action that I just had to, you know, Spotify has been giving me too many emails and prompts on how to grow my podcast. And they were like, bring out call to action to your audience. And I was like, all right, fair enough. So here is the first

call to action, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls and everybody along with them. Risk vs. Reward Part 4 from Paragliding Atlas in your ears right away.

Raul Rodriguez. five times world champion, six times acro world champion, and now an owner of a paragliding school. Who are you, sir? And how did you get to be this awesome in life? Hello. Nice to be here. And yeah, it was a long way to make all this. But the beginning was because my

Aninder: father he was a really like crazy sportive guy on this early times that he created a school teaching friends so i was there and from 12 years old i started to fly and from there i think that This was my way of life, the only way I want to live, like flying. It was progressive. For me, the most important was, or the thing that I really love these times, every day and still now, is that you can learn something every day. Learn something. small move or something about the wind, about the thermals. It was a long way like competing in cross country on these times to learning how to

move to the mountains and in the distance. But at the same time was more my passion like control the glider than others. So really from the first flights, I was thinking that I want to fly straight. I need to fly making something better than straight. And so I start to break and release and making of dolphins. I see on the magazines, the paragliding Spanish magazine, that all the DHB manoeuvres. So I had a list of manoeuvres. So I was like, yeah, 12 or 13 years old. And then I see this list and tell to my brother Felix, he started also to fly at this time. And I told Felix, this

is the list of the manoeuvres existing. This is the manoeuvres we need to control. But it was not one. that I can ask around because we live in the middle Spain like flatlands only my father and me and my brother flies but I was playing all of this alone and teaching to Felix and then also to Horacio my cousin and very soon I finished all the list so it was like the list was just like The B stall, collapse, spiral, full stall and negative. And not many things more. Really, I finished very fast all the lists. So I practiced a lot this, but then I needed to get something new,

always. I was pushing all these manoeuvres a bit on the limits, trying to find something. I start with the negative because dynamic moves was the loop, the most top. But then I found in the negative, something like different, like a negative that goes around me. that at the end it was like one year playing this negative and at the end it becomes the set negative the glider in one side pin so the other side flying it was around me and at the end i released a bit more and it was like a set it takes one year And from this set, I understood that I can do set asymmetric and tumbling

for sure. And at the same time, I was playing negative to pull, keep, pull, release. So Misty Flip, McTwist. And I was like this every day, trying something different. I see the videos that we were filming, all the history we were filming with these mini cameras. And when I see every day is my flight, it was like crazy trying many things every day. But the important thing really on this time was the family team. Like we create the SAP team, safety acro team with these cross country pilots that likes acro. So Richard Gallon, Daniel Crespo, Felix Horacio, David Heró, many small groups like this. Just to be close and play acro, watch each other and learn from the team, from the group. And this group

created a good way to be safe and play very hard like crazy. Like me alone making manoeuvres is good, but trying to be close to your friend making manoeuvres is really incredible. Still is the best feeling I have. like now with last years with Horacio Maikuse doing block hook manoeuvres like stall manoeuvres connected with the feeds for me the most important really from always was more like create manoeuvres was most important than be the best on the competitions it was crazy but For sure, new manoeuvres give me more energy for me. 100% man, and we all know

Raúl Rodríguez: sharing the joy with your near and dear ones increases the tempo, so I can imagine how amazing it must be exploring all these new experiences with your friends and family. Can you share with us how did your visualization look like? Did you dream? Did you have dreams like this? Or how did you plan to go out and make all of this happen? What were your thought process during all of those years when you were progressing?

Aninder: And yeah, I was really progressive on the maneuvers, landing. From the beginning, like a spiral, I was really progressive on the energy, not going to the maximum spin, just taking, making use to the energy. But at the end, when I need to create something new, like a set, or a tumbling but it was in my mind already to make a tumbling because yeah why not hang glider can do a tumbling airplane can do tumbling why not a paraglider can just go to the front like one it was the idea to make one turn for sure And then I was trying a few times the tumbling, but it was not really nice

out of my understanding. So I was really progressive from set to set asymmetric to tumbling lateral to more vertical. It was really day by day making a bit of progression on the inclination of the set. But then in one year or two years, we were like nice tumblings. And then it was the first time it was one turn. So then the objective was to make more turns, like two turns. So it was at the beginning only one turn. Then we started to try to make two turns. Then three turns. So I said to Felix that the only new way to go to tumbling that I was in my mind is to go totally straight.

Aninder: Because even now I can keep a tumbling like a bit lateral three times. Why not to go totally straight? But I was never thinking that it will be more than one turn. I was like, yeah, okay, it will be straight, totally straight. release from hands center okay one turn will be one turn and then i don't know what will happen but then it stay into infinity and stay like one two three until eight turns without stopping so the same energy all move every time. I land and then I say, this is the infinity. The manoeuvre, the name happens to my mind because you can keep forever

infinity tunes. I was thinking in all the progression from sad to infinite to tumbling, but I never imagined that infinity can happen because, yeah, nobody trained. I was like, really? Not on the progression. Progression can be a straight one turn, but to keep infinity was an idea that I never imagined. So at the end, all the manoeuvres I was thinking, imagining these manoeuvres, progressive, like with more energy or combinations between. like dynamic and negative but infinity really appears like it was a dream the most important at the end the perfection From set to infinity takes me five years of progression. Wow. So that's five years of pure hard work going

Raúl Rodríguez: out, dreaming, and putting in the effort. Five years. And at the end, the last manoeuvre to be like crazy was infinity. And all the rest

Aninder: manoeuvres was in between these five years. So all the synchro and solo, McTwist, Misty Elite, all these manoeuvres that we played, Twisted from 2003.

I was playing Twisted, like simple manoeuvres, like Little Winovers or Spiral or Stall. I also saw Misty Flips. It takes 10 years for other pilots to start to play Twisted. It was 10 years alone playing Twisted. But the guys didn't want to play. They said it was crazy. They didn't even want to try. But at the end, Zeo and the team started to play Twisted and now everybody is Twisted. But that is good because twisted is very important to the progression. It makes it increase the number of combinations because normal spiral like to the right you can go twisted to the right or you can go twisted to the left so in the same spiral or you can change the twist so in one maneuver you have three maneuvers more

twisted combinations and this happens in all the maneuvers so you can make all with a lot of variants of twisted That is for us is a manoeuvre. Every new twisted combination is a manoeuvre because you need to learn the move and it's different totally if you twist the right or twist the left or changing the twist. So the game now is really funny, complicated. They have a lot of possibilities.

Raúl Rodríguez: Sounds amazing, Raul. But before I move on to the equipment part, I just want to figure out, let's say these five years of hard work when you guys were inventing from the beginning of something outside the DHV safety maneuvers. Everyone around you must be questioning your moves as these guys are just pushing the limits way too much. Why are they being so stupid? Like even today, if somebody tries something out of the box, people are like, just don't do this. You're going to kill yourself or something. So the risk must have been pretty high. And I understand you were working hard to make sure that you were diminishing the risk as much. But how did you manage to stay safe during these years of

progression? And what was your strategy to try and keep everything under control? And you and everyone around you of the Acro team as well. So how did you guys stay within the limits of paragliding while you were chasing this? yeah it was like you said it was at times that we was pushing

Aninder: the limits and for the rest of the world was we was like a crazy voice even for the professional pilots like the hv pilot was telling that the full stall was not possible to control things like this like it was maneuvers that you cannot control we was already controlling all these maneuvers so The way to be safe was really to be progressive on the control, like not to be trying to not push too much the limits, just to push a little bit more every day by day, just a little bit more than the day before or the flight before. Because always when we try to push a lot more, it was like not

control situations. We had a lot of crashes anyway, rescues, a lot. Even I crashed with one friend, Pablo López, 100 meters high, making synchro. So we cannot use the rescue and both crashed. It was like, yeah. We don't break nothing. Pablo break only the backside. Yeah. Boom. But yeah, it was difficult to manage the risks. Yes. Sometimes it was a question of lucky. When we push the limits hard, it's difficult to not have the risk. Many times I was crushed to really crash so close. Many times I said, well, today I was lucky. Like every day, wow, look at this. I almost crashed to Richard. Well, for a meter, I almost crashed to the ground. But the thing I want to tell you was that everybody around was

telling us that we are crazy. Even in some places we cannot do acro because it's forbidden or organizations telling me to test the wind. Then I go and make acro, but then I make acro into the competition and the cross country competition. And always telling me like, I cannot make these things. So it was a big fight from Bowie against the rest of the world. Me making manoeuvres that they don't understand and the rest coming to me, please Raúl, stop this. You are crazy. Like the best, the best cross country pilots in the World Cups comes to me many times and tell me this or Raúl, you are crazy. Don't do these manoeuvres or. But at the time that I found the set and the rest of the manoeuvres, like these

tanks, nobody more told me this, you're crazy. It was different. From the time I invented the manoeuvres, the new manoeuvres, the people came to me and told me, wow, congratulations and thank you. More and more, the people that come now, the new generations give me like feedback as crazy that Acro changed their lives. And thanks for Manobers and all this. And this is what really makes me happy. For sure, the feedback from the people. And then about to manage the risk, we was on the progression away, way of progression about the learning crash and learn something. We crash or we have some problem and then we learn. So we put two rescues and at the beginning there was only one rescue, but then we saw the rescue

Aninder: goes on the lines, so maybe two rescues to have two opportunities. Then, yeah, how to use these rescues? The rogalo appears, it was so important. So rogalo gave us the possibility to use the rescue and go maybe to the landing, a safe landing. We learned to use the rescue and finally it became our best friend because always it saved our lives. We learned to use the rescue, take the glider and land safe. So like this time to use the rescue was not a big fear or We always have fear on the manoeuvres. When I'm going to the box thinking that I will do something new, for sure I

feel, wow, I know I've been three times inside the glider. So it can be again, for sure. So I'm scared. I feel fear on the way to the box, but then you need to decide if I need to decide if I will do or not. And I always decide to try. And at the time I decide to try, the fear disappears. Then I just focus on the maneuver. So with the rescue, it's the same. When you never use the rescue, it's like so scary. It sounds like crazy that maybe you will die or I don't know. But really, when you use the rescue many times, then you understand that it saves your life as soon as you are out

of control use the rescue and this also Organia it was a crazy and nice casualty to to to be there because we were the first to be there when no acro pilots existed. We were in the manoeuvre for four years alone, like the sub-team. And the place is really safe because all the mountains have little trees and then the landing is like clean. So we learned how to use the rescue in this mountain. It's important also the group on this situation. When you use a rescue, like in Orgaña, a lot of pilots flying there. So when someone uses the rescue, everybody looking what's happened. If the pilot's close, I can fly and be really close to the pilot to see if it's okay. And this gives you some kind of a good feeling. If I fly

in Orgaña with nobody, alone, and then I use a rescue, it can be a problem. I don't know, maybe I land on the mountain, cannot escape from there, nobody sees me. You alone is not the same. As with the group. So for the safety also, this group, like your friends or like in Orgaña is everybody a big group of family that everybody look to the other and we all talk and learn from the others. It's important. I think we have a very good progression in Organia because the group make you progress safety, like better feeling and also like safety. 100% Raul, I think

Raúl Rodríguez: teamwork makes dream work is the saying that comes to my mind. And that's what you guys did. You as a team, you made your dreams a reality in the sport of acro. But tell me something about the early days, Raul, let's say that five year period when you had World Cup pilots coming up to you and saying that, hey, you're doing something wrong and don't do this, you're going to hurt yourself and all. How did you manage to shut away all that negativity and still focus on your dream and passion? Yeah, it was a question of belief in me. They really need to believe in me. It was the

Aninder: best pilots on the world coming to me and telling these things to negative words. But I know what I'm doing. I know that I control these guys. The response was like, OK, you tell me that I cannot control my winovers like this. But I see that you cannot put the glider on the side. So for me, the guys that are crazy flying, they don't know how to control the glider in all the positions. So I know really what I was doing and I was just like passing away. These things continue with my focus and it's still the same because it's crazy sometimes. Even for me, the things

that I have are crazy. Then I need to tell to someone like Horacio. Okay, Horacio, we go to SAP together, connected with the FITS. And then it's okay. Really, we want to do this. If something happens, we are like close. We will just crash each other. But I need to believe in me. Because if not, it's like always about the question of fear. If I'm scared to die and I don't try, for sure, if I don't try a new thing, a new idea, because I'm scared, my evolution is stopped, it's done. So... it's only a question of fear that you need to try and you always for me at least I

always I was really scared to try something like a sad fusion with Horacio really scared how we will escape from this manoeuvre or but at the end we tried and we it was okay like we don't crash so this fight against the fear it's always when you try and you see that is not like you thought that you will die it helps like it's easier and easier to cross this limit because we cross many times how many times we say maybe today is the day that I will die because yes I will try to do this and I know I can go on the glider or can go to my friend, it always is passing in these

thinking on the mind. But we need to fight against these negative vibrations and just to focus on the idea, on the way to make it. But yeah, I'm really like very obsessive with these things. If I want to try something, I for sure will go. Doesn't matter. the risk because I needed to try everything. Do you have any sort of mental preparation that you prepare for high-risk situations? Let's say the latest maneuver that

Raúl Rodríguez: you did with Horatio, like legs-locked SAT maneuver. Was it SAT or was it something else? Yeah, SAT. So let's say the one which got you drones in the latest world championship. How do you mentally prepare yourself? What does your training regime look like when you try to go into these brand new situations which are alien even to you? How do you navigate that one? Yeah, just before this try, we made a lock with the legs locked

Aninder: spiral, like very strong spiral, like 360, but with the gliders really diving. So it was a feeling that it gave me the point to tell to Horacio that we can go to the next step. And then we just prepare thinking about the manoeuvre together. trying to see all the possible situations. If we go to shut, if I brake too much, if I want to release, then if I release, what the gliders do, pulling down or pulling up. So we just talked a lot about the manoeuvre. And the night it was like difficult to sleep, thinking that we will try this thing the next day. But at the end, it was

really like always on the way to the box, wow, why we want to try this? The thinking, why maybe we crash, I don't know. But it's always the same. As soon as I start to make the manoeuvre, all the fears disappear and just focus on the manoeuvre. Focus on the glider, so there's no way to have fear. Better preparation is more like mentality. Make, imagine the manoeuvre in your mind as many times as possible with all the variations. Got it. Can you talk to our audience a little bit about how this mental preparation or the flying in the air has changed over a

Raúl Rodríguez: period of time? Let's say you've been doing this for nearly 30 years now. And how have you as a pilot evolved in this decision making when you were a teenager compared to what you are now? Although you're still winning podiums. Yeah, it changes, always changes for sure. I think when I was 20

Aninder: years old and pushing all these limits, I was really pushing a lot, crazy. But I still feel the same sometimes. Like this summer, I was pushing the limits a lot with Horacio in this synchro, trying this set fusion. But during the summer in Orgaña with Jose, a Colombian guy, we fly together really close into the lines, crossing the gliders all the time. A different way of, not really manoeuvres, but different ways of flying close, trying to be inside the glider as much as possible, grab the gliders, touch. So we were really crazy. I pushed the limits really strong there against Jose. But also, I was feeling good enough to play maneuvers close to the ground, like a proximity acro. It was an idea that

I had for a long time. thinking about making in a mountain with snow. It was taking energy, 360, touching a tree, a misty flip, and then touching tree, misty flip, tree. So I attacked the mountain in three maneuvers. And this was really scary, really impressed me a lot because on the way to pull the Misty Flea was like maybe 20 meters from the mountain. So I cannot make a mistake, like not a rescue possible. but it was the feeling, it was different. On the same manoeuvre, Misty Flip was really different to make it close to the ground than in the sky, like in the box, that you have no reference. So close to the ground was like really focused me on the manoeuvre, on the energy, on my all move, rotations,

energy. And I played this like really hard. I found the limits. Yeah, absolutely. I almost touched all the mountain all the way down, touching the trees, making misty flips and McTwists. Misty flips one turn and McTwists two turns. Sounds so exciting. In fact, I saw an

Raúl Rodríguez: Instagram video of yours. I don't know which size ozone were you flying, maybe 14 or 18. And you were doing helicos so low to the ground. It was

Aninder: like... Is this the same one that you're talking about? Yeah, but not helicos, like misty flip rotation, one turn just to escape again. And so close, like really between the trees. So crazy. The rest of the acro pilots there was not... No one wants to even try, so... I was pushing really hard. So it's different from when I was 20, but I still like to push a lot. Can I ask you, why do you push so hard? I need to really understand everything. I want to try to create as much as I can. Create a new maneuver for me is so important, really. Or a new style. Create proximity acro is

wow. so it's something new maybe in the future the rest of the pilots will do it for me it's the best feeling to create something that in the future everybody can play but for sure they stay for everyone they want and into the future forever so it's a crazy thing idea like maneuvers like infinity it will be infinity forever for everyone and this makes me yeah really happy wow what a way to cement your legacy in the sport i would say

Raúl Rodríguez: proximity acro god that sounds super exciting though because i'm just a cross-country pilot and when i fly close to the terrain or just close to the treetops it's a whole different feeling than flying super high up where the reference point does not exist so i can just imagine how much adrenaline you must be chasing when you're doing all of these acros so close Crazy. I was in one, yeah, maybe I do two, three, four consecutives

Aninder: and then I need to stop because my hair will explode. At the end I get used to and I can do all the mountain down, but then I land like crazy. 10 manoeuvres at this level is 10 base jumps. Wow, I can imagine, acro-fair gliding is a whole different scenario compared to any other form of

Raúl Rodríguez: flying. Yeah, but on the idea, it's not like this proximity we will have on the mountains, like big mountains with cliffs and trees. So I can make

Aninder: lines that they will be like unique lines, like proximity with also infinity. If I have a cliff that I can do close to the trees and then side of the cliff make a few turns in infinity and then fly back and then yeah it's like acro proximity so the lines will be crazy this winter i want to play on the snow god needless to say looking forward raul and i'm pretty sure all our listeners are as well so i think they can chase you on instagram and see all your adventures there right yeah for sure amazing No, the idea of the proximity is really proximity begins to mix it with the

snowboard, okay, in the snow. Because I love snowboard and then paragliding and snowboard is a nice combination to play in the mountain, like touching, making a crew on the snow, like kind of this. It's like question of need to try something different always. Yeah.

Raúl Rodríguez: Were you a very restless child when you were young? Because usually that is how these kind of people are, you know? They can't sit in one place for too long. So were you one of those kinds when you were growing up that eventually you turned out to be the coolest acrobat in the world? What,

Aninder: sorry? I'm saying, were you a very impatient child when you were young? Yeah. Absolutely. I need to... You know, the place I am in now is my parents' house in Albabacete. It's a small city in the flatlands. So... I was trying to escape from this small city because there's nothing around. No trees even, no rivers, no mountains. So I always wanted to stay out of here and fly in the mountains. But also I need to always create something.

inventions yeah i have sewing machines so i make the acro handles that over all the acro pilots cars now it was my invention because i need something different than a normal brake handle or the base system because I think I was looking at the base jams and then I thought that it can be good to have a base jam also in the harness. So I go with a rigger and create the first base system. like this i need to always create things i have a lot ideas like crazy cannot stop and then i need to find because the videos and the pictures are not good to express even maneuvers or moves

so better just making painting or designs on the computer a lot also with the accrue manoeuvres and bursts. So yes, also that I have a list of manoeuvres that I always from this list, I have the list, so increase the list.

And I play in the Excel with a group of manoeuvres and manoeuvres combinations. And the list is so big, really. Now I have more than 4,000 possible combinations. Wow.

Raúl Rodríguez: That's the biggest secret I've heard in the world of paragliding, Raúl. Yeah, I think it's more than 1,000 solo and more than 3,000 synchro.

Aninder: But the thing in this list that all the time that I go to the list to check, then it increased because I see more combinations, because we have new combinations so I can put there. So the list is always increasing. I stopped to this 4,000 like two years ago. I stopped to check the list and I decided that The number is increasing to infinity. This is my conclusion. But for the moment, we have a lot. In this list, maybe we need a few generations to make all these manoeuvres. It's so big. With pilots, synchro, two pilots, three pilots, manoeuvres of groups. There are too much. A lot. Infinity of possibilities, I'm sure. But do you have your favorite ones from the list? Do you have like top five, top

Raúl Rodríguez: ten, which you can tell our listeners right now? Yeah, the best are the first ones for sure. Infinity or Misty Fleet and Mass Tweezer. the best

Aninder: for sure because are the basics move like different feelings like straight totally straight or one two rotation or full power rotation mark twist and then synchro but a hook is crazy like really connect to your friend and maybe just fly straight and then it's crazy but making maneuvers wow Yes, and for future maneuvers, I have some that I really want to play, that need to be in groups for pilots, maybe five pilots, but there are a lot of really beautiful combinations I need to try. Is it a secret list or do your friends get to see it now and then? I'm a secret. All right, fair enough. But I think it's important not too far to put this list in public. And like this, we can all go to a new trick or try to,

Aninder: because there are a lot. If you had the level and you can try, why not? You go to the list and then, well, maybe I can try this. Just to be faster on the evolution. But yeah, for the moment it's just like Excel with names. So to make the list, I need a lot of work to put dream manoeuvre explanation with some kind of draws or pictures, because it's not only names. But it can be, yeah, it's a work that I need to do for sure. Raoul, before I

Raúl Rodríguez: proceed to your school and imparting knowledge to the next generation, I quickly want to touch upon the topic of equipment. Gliders have come a very long way since you guys started. And of course, you were practicing on very different technology of links. And now the wings are getting smaller and smaller. We have 14 square meter acro sizes. So how have you seen the technology in acro paragliding evolved? And is it getting safer or is it getting more exciting? The Volusion was like the first acroglider that I have. It was a millennium from the cross-country top

Aninder: glider. but it was good to to set at least because at these times when the sat appear then we try with other gliders and it was like not all the gliders can do more of them collapse the tips the cross country gliders because the competitions and then we ask for small sizes and less aspect ratio to this submanoeuvre to not collapse. It was becoming the gliders better and better, like in two years, three years from the first competition with the gliders was really crazy good. making perfect tumblings, all of the competition acrobladers, if you stall and release, it will pass under you. Maybe you go on the glider because you make it in the good time,

But it means that these competition gliders are really technical and dangerous. If you don't control, if you make a stall or misty flip and you forget to break the shooting, you can go on the glider. I quickly, when it comes to learning the acro sport, as you said, you start with SIV

Raúl Rodríguez: maneuvers on a regular glider to know how it feels when it's not above your head. But how far does a high V glider go in the role of acro paragliding? Can a high B glider do majority of the tricks but tumbling? Better, yeah. Can do their tricks, but it's like more aspect ratio, so

Aninder: you need more control. It's not designed for manoeuvres. Like simple stall, fly backwards. If I have a glider with low aspect ratio, the tips are really solid. But if I have a lot of aspect ratio, even if I'm really good on the brakes, the tips will go to the front. and then so they can do the maneuvers but not that clean as acro gliders for sure the acro gliders are the gliders perfect designed for stall and fly backwards because dynamic maneuvers every glider will do okay dynamic doesn't matter competition first country or a glider What is dynamic maneuvers? Like spiral and windovers and loop. These are dynamic, positive flying. But then the problem is when they're negative flying,

like stall. If the glider is not designed for stall maneuvers, like it moves a lot, it's not clean. And then it's not flying backwards, like stable. It's super unstable. So for these gliders that have low aster radius, it's much better. Like an A glider, a school glider, you will stall and then the glider will stay open. Can you damage the fabric or the stitching of a cross-country glider if you try and put it in some sort of

Raúl Rodríguez: introductory acro paragliding? We will not be damaged by the manoeuvres like in Spiral. You will have a lot of tension. But the

Aninder: problem is, for me, I think, is when you get a collapse in the manoeuvre, like a win over. You make a win over and then collapse. And then it opens really hard. Then you can then break the lines for sure or the fabric in the re-openings from collapses into the manoeuvres. Maybe the manoeuvre is not that strong, but if you collapse and open really hard, for sure it will break. Makes sense, makes sense. Let's talk a little bit

Raúl Rodríguez: about your latest project, Raul, the one which you're doing with your cousin Horacio, Fusion Paralyzing School. Tell us about this brand new epic journey that you both of you have started on about sharing the knowledge and how is it going so far? Yeah, we started with this idea a few

Aninder: years ago. I make a lot of SAV courses before, but now the idea is just to teach. We don't make a lot of courses. We're more focused, at least this year, we were focused on the competition and training. So we did one, two courses only. But the project we have now is, we are focused now, is a film from the family about the history of the Acro. And so it's a film that we will try to sell to like the Amazon or Netflix. So a big film from the family that we already close to finish filming. And we'll be done, we'll be finished in July next year. So this is our big project now. We have more

than 300 hours of filming from the beginning of the acro, from the first manoeuvre. All the manoeuvres are filmed. We're filming all the parties, the trips, the family life, the manoeuvres, the competitions.

Raúl Rodríguez: This is the big project. Love it. I think sharing the intimate journey that all of you guys have had together with the audiences around the world is going to be priceless. So cannot wait for July next year to come around and But Raul, while we're talking about filming, I forgot to ask you this. GoPros have just grown up in popularity and acro paragliding or any sort of paragliding comes with its own challenges of lines being thrown around your head or somewhere around that. When a new beginner is going out there with a camera, how have you navigated filming in flight and staying safe while doing that? Because any external attachment is quite a risky thing in paragliding. Yeah, the best place is to put it in

Aninder: the knee. It's like a helmet. GoPro is dangerous, really. In case you have a collapse, the lines can grab the GoPro, even the brake line. So the helmet, GoPro is like really not, I don't suggest to use it because really dangerous but I use it there. I use the helmet because it's the best view. But for me the most important if I want to check and make a report from the pilot is the camera on the knee, GoPro face to the glider so I can see like the head and the arms on the glider. and then all the moves then i can check yeah i think gopro's basically opened up a whole new

world which people were not able to so at the beginning we need to use cameras like with mini dv cassettes so it was a big cameras and then with it we need to buy the gran yeah fish eyes And then this we need to fix by tapes on the knee, on the helmet, just because it's not possible to put in another way, only by tape all around. And then when GoPros appear, it makes our progression faster. Yes. Makes sense. We are almost reaching

Raúl Rodríguez: the end of the show here with the time that we have. I quickly want to touch upon a topic with your school that this is a question that I forgot to ask you earlier, that when a new student comes, from an instructor's point of view, if there are any instructors listening to this, how do you assess the student and how do you decide giving that how to design the progression for the instructor or for the student that that comes in?

Aninder: For me, it's a work of psychology. I need to go in everyone and then make a simple routine for the first flight and ask a few manoeuvres, very simple. Spiral, soft, or dolphins, or collapse. Then from this flight, I can see if the pilot is pulling, is feeling comfortable or not into the energy. It's very personal work. Like every pilot has his own fears and limits. So I try to not push the limits. I try that the pilot push the limit himself. Something like this is my way of checking. True. Do you say no to some students as well who you think are like not ready to be a part of the

Raúl Rodríguez: course yet? No, but the course for sure for every level is not a question of level. I think every pilot is ready to go for this. The objectives are

Aninder: like learn something new. learn something about maybe control the glider but not means that the pilot need to make all the maneuvers so for me every pilot is welcome so yeah I think anyways, any of our listeners who are curious about what we are talking about, they can head over to the

Raúl Rodríguez: website of the school called fusionflyingschool.com, the link to which will be posted in the show notes below. So feel free to check out Fusion Flying School. This is a joint venture by Raul and Horacio in sharing their knowledge with all of us and making paragliding and acroparagliding a better place in all together. I think with that role, we are coming to the end of the show. So before I let you go, I would request you as I do to a lot of my guests. Can you share one story that has stuck with you throughout your career? For me, the most important about flying is

Aninder: like friends and of course a connection with the nature. And I think one of the stories is that the most exciting story about connection with the nature was in a trip with the SAP team in Chile. And then we were all together with like 10 pilots, tripping, traveling for Chile. And we arrived to a boulders to 3000 meters high. Pucon volcano, full of snow. But then, and it's an active volcano. So we saw the smoke coming out like crazy. And we was, yeah, we got to fly there on the, from the volcano, from the bottom. So we go to the rotor side, which was the only place that we can

go by car. So we really take off from the lee side, but it was from wind on the bottom side. So we all take off trying to reach the volcano, the top. Like all the sub-team trying to see the magma, the volcano, but it was super turbulent, collapsing, crazy. And all my friends just fly down. because it was so turbulent and I was there fighting and at the end I can climb over the volcano and go to the yeah to the just over the volcano and see the magma and the whole was I was just there watching and some some little magma was like coming out and inside again and it was like wow then

i top land there and the mountaineers that i there they were there it was like calling me crazy because they took eight hours to climb and i was like like in normal shoes Yeah, it was so funny. Then I know I can take off again. So it was a nice experience with the nature. But there are many stories like that. I can imagine. And no one podcast episode can do justice to the amount of experience and the

Raúl Rodríguez: excitement you've had in your life. So we'll be sure to bring you back for another one. But flying over a volcano is not something that a lot of people can boast about, but neither can they boast about inventing Acro. So you are one of a kind, Raoul, and it's been an absolute honor and pleasure to have you on the show and have you in the community and have you as a part of the paragliding sport as a whole. Thank you so much, Raul. It's been a pleasure. Thanks to you for the invitation, the experience.