Sky Gods : Flying 8000ers : Antoine Girard

Antoine Girard: It's a new thing because all the people tell it's not possible to fly at 8,000 meters. I know that, so I decided to try to fly at 8,000 meters. I did that in 2016. It was the first flight at 8,000 meters. And now I would like to fly at 9,000 meters to tell we don't have a limit, in fact. I don't know. For me, when I do something, it's not for the competition. I don't want to fight with other people. I fight with me. I do my maximum and I like to push my limits. And when I walked around 7,800 meters, the cloud was very, very cold and my glasses were totally frozen. So it was impossible to see something. My instrument is the same. The screen was totally frozen. So

I don't have information. And after a fight around 8,000 meters, I see the sun on the summit because this is the end of the cloud. So I managed to take one direction. I take the direction of the sun and I go straight.

Aninder: The number 8,000 has been fancied by mountaineers and their community for a very long time. For it symbolizes willpower, strength and the motivation behind pushing limits. An epitome of human endurance where mind wins over the body. But that kind of seemed relevant until this guy showed up and just started a whole new way of exploring these majestic giants. Coming from a climbing background, the allure of 8000ers fascinated him just like any other climber. However, he soon realized that flying all the way to these summits was far more enjoyable than enduring days long treks to scale the same height. Now, just to give you some context, the challenges at 8,000 meters and above aren't just

about reduced oxygen levels. I mean, that's a given that there is less oxygen over there and the heart beats much faster than normal to ensure sufficient supply of O2 to various organs in order to sustain life. But this is also often coupled with freezing temperatures, much stronger ultraviolet radiations, and extreme weather conditions, which collectively coming together form what is known as the death zone. To put it simply, human life is not designed to be sustained at these heights for extended period of times. So, when I was digging up some background information about this episode, one fact came across repeatedly in the search results. That was that more people have gone to

outer space than those who have summited the hardest mountain peak in the world, K2, in the Karakoram range. And that's when it stuck me that how extremely rare and challenging it is to explore this area or even set foot on this side of the world. And on top of that to think about taking a collapsible wing in such hostile environment and not just for a top to bottom descent but in fact to push it to its very limits and end up breaking some world records on the way without even planning to is just simply mind-blowing to think about it. It reminds me of a famous saying

which goes that if you take risks you might lose but if you don't take risks you have lost already. And today we have someone who's putting that saying to its test, a true pioneer of our sport, a paraglider extraordinaire, and someone who is redefining the limits of modern day paragliding. His journey isn't just a tale of reaching great heights, but in fact it's a testament to the human potential and the unwavering desire to explore the uncharted. So without further ado, let's dive right into this conversation with the true legend of our sport, Antion Girard, as he constantly seeks to touch the sky with glory, no matter which side of the globe he's on, for whenever he practices the art of

flight in its purest form.

Antoine, greetings, my man. Thank you so much for joining in and agreeing to do this. Means the world. The reason why I reached out to you to bring you up as a guest on my show was because you have flown where very few people have even set their foot on. I mean, let alone fly with their paraglider, which to me is fascinating beyond measure. So a big welcome to Paragliding Atlas. Super happy to have you here. You're welcome. Great. So shall we begin? Yes, of course. All right. So, Antoine, you are someone who has replaced a cable car in the Alps with a paraglider in the

Aninder: Himalayas. I saw this quote on your website. And the first question that comes to my mind is, like, what's so fascinating about heights, man? And why do you chase high summits and high flights everywhere across the globe? Like, what's the motivation behind doing this? For me, the

Antoine Girard: motivation, we have two things. The first is to fly at 8,000 meters, for example. It's a new thing because all the people tell it's not possible to fly at 8,000 meters. I know that, so I decided to try to fly at 8,000 meters. I did that in 2016. It was the first flight at 8,000 meters. And now I would like to fly at 9,000 meters to tell we don't have a limit, in fact. So I tried to push the limit and I hope to break the 9,000 meters. And I think it's possible. And the second thing, I like to do some exploration. And to fly in very high altitude, it's one exploration.

And also, I know before I was mountaineer, and I did a lot of summit, like 8,000 meters. And to do a summit of 7,000 or 8,000 meters, we need one month. And me, I think with a paraglide, we can reduce the time at... For example, one day, if you have a good acclimatization, for example, I start from Karimabad. It's a small city. I take my paraglide. I take off. I did 40 kilometers to go, for example, on Spantik or on Diyan. I did that two times. I land on the mountain, at the middle of the mountain, like if you take a cable car in the Alps. We climb the mountain, and at this point,

I put my paraglide, I pack my paraglide, stay in the snow, and me, I climb to the summit, only with my crampoon, with my axe, And I go to the summit, I come back at my paraglide, I take off again and come back at the city. I do that in only one day. So it's possible to do 7,000 meters, for example, in one day. It's a new thing. And like that, we can do in one month, maybe four, five, 7,000. It's...

It's a new thing and I like to discover what is possible. And this is a combo because I mix paragliding and alpinism. But it's a second way. It's not the same one, but I like to discover what is possible to do. Wow. This is so inspiring to hear, Antoine. Like, you're telling me that

Aninder: you're going to push the limit up to 9,000. I mean, I've only been up to 5,000 in my personal career, and I thought that was high. But honestly, just hearing this come from someone who actually does what he says, first of all, can't wait for the day you actually do it. And secondly, I hope I can join you one day and follow your exploits to 8,000 and beyond.

Just to backtrack a little here, I was on your website and I saw that you were in a rock climbing World Cup at the age of 19. Is that correct? Yes, it's correct. I did a lot of competition of climbing, but it's far away now. My last one was maybe 2004 or something like that. But I began by rock

Antoine Girard: climbing, after I did some mountaineering, and now I do a lot of paragliding, and now I mix paragliding and climbing together. I see.

Aninder: Well, just for the perspective of our listeners, so basically you were very active in a professional competition scene from by the time you were 19 years old. And I think when you were 25, you did your first 8,000-meter climb in Chouyou, if I'm not wrong. And by 27, you climbed K2 solo. Is that correct? And if yes, can you help our listeners get a little bit of a perspective? Like, how did this journey start in your life? And how did you basically start pushing limits before paragliding came into your life? Yes, at the beginning, I was a mountaineer. And I read a

Antoine Girard: lot of books about the mountains. And I would like to discover also me because I'm a mountaineer. So I would like to go on 8,000 meters. I was on Shoyu in 2004, but I don't stay long time on the mountain. I didn't do the summit, but just it's my first experience on 8,000 meters. I don't stay on the mountain because we have too much tourists and it's not my way because It's more for the tourists, it's not for me. So at the second time, okay, I'm ready to climb 8,000 meters. So I'm going on K2, and I climbed K2 in 2006. It was an expedition in solo, and it's very, very difficult to

climb K2 in solo. And at this moment, in 2006, it's not like now, because now you have 1,000 people on the mountain. But in 2006, we were maybe 40 on the mountain for all the routes. And I climbed alone my way. And I fixed, I think, close to 2,000 meters of fixed rope. And it's a big job. But we don't fix a line like now everywhere. Just when it's very difficult, we fix a small path and we climb like that. Another time, I didn't do the summit. I stopped at around 8,000 meters. I was alone at 8,000 meters. His commitment to be alone at 8,000 meters. Nobody was above me or

somewhere. I was totally alone at 8,000 meters. So I decided to come back because the weather was not very good. After that I did another 8000m, I tried broad peak. But it was at the same moment where I begin the paragliding. So I decided to climb broad peak and down with my paraglide. But another time, I didn't do the summit, and I took off from Camp 3 at 7,200 meters. Wow. I did two expeditions like that. I did exactly the same. The second time, we had very, very bad weather. And after that, I stopped the expedition because we lose a lot of time just to climb one mountain. For me, I don't have a... I don't want to do that every time because I lose too

much time and I decide to fly everywhere because I like to climb the mountain to see the view. But with paragliding, I can do, I don't know, maybe 10 or 20 summits in one day. Wow. So I can have a life of alpinist in one day. So I prefer to fly and mix flying and mountaineering. You know,

Aninder: this reminds me of a saying that I came across that why walk when you can fly? And you seem to be somebody who seems to be living it because walking, of course, takes so long and flying basically gives you the same reward in a much, much more shorter time. Super inspiring. But just to ask you, doing solo at a mountain like K2 when you have like maybe 40 people at base camp, man, that sounds very scary. Like, come on, why would you put something like that in your itinerary? Like, what's the reason behind going solo and not finding a team? Is it that because... There were not enough people or you were just like, I really want to do this and I don't want to wait for anyone? Like, what was the ideology

Aninder: behind going solo on K2?

Antoine Girard: Maybe for different things. One is when you go in the mountain like K2, when you don't have a fixed line everywhere, something like that is very, very dangerous and commitment. So I prefer to be alone because I don't have to check my friend and everything. I'm just alone and I take a risk for me, but not for a team. But now, for my new expedition, it's the same. When it's very commitment, I prefer to go alone. When it's a normal expedition, I go with some friends. For me, it's most easy, like that. And the second thing, for the K2, at this moment,

maybe I want to go inside me, just to be alone in the mountain, to understand the life and... what happens in my mind when I'm alone somewhere dangerous. And I think it's interesting for my mind. It's interesting for us as well as viewers. I have to give you that. And super

Aninder: brave and super inspiring, as I mentioned. Anyways, coming to your flying career, I was reading on your website, you said you had your first hike and fly competition in 2011. And then by 2016, you had already set a world altitude record.

So I understand that you were competing since you were 19 in World Cups and rock climbing and you were a very proficient athlete in the beginning. But going from a fullest competition in flying within a span of five years, you pushed the limit that nobody else had did. What was the drive behind it, man? How did you do this? How did this guy come into a brand new sport and basically reach the top so quickly within five years?

Antoine Girard: I don't know. For me, when I do something, it's not for the competition. I don't want to fight with other people. I fight with me. I do my maximum and I like to push my limits. But when you have a good progress, you are better and better every day. So at one moment, you are maybe one of the best in the world. For my first competition in paragliding in 2011, I won this competition. It was a big competition. But at this moment, I don't know my level because it was my first time where I go with somebody. And my second competition was the Red Bull X-Alps. It's a very big

competition, maybe the most biggest in the world of paragliding. And I finish third at this competition.

And at this moment, I understand Okay, I have a good level, but my goal is not to fight with other people. My goal is to push my limits. So I begin to do some projects like New Zealand. My first big project was in New Zealand. I crossed the New Zealand in 2015. And at this moment, I understand I love to do a lot of expedition and I go in the nature. And I decided to do that all the time. Of course, I did three other X-Alps after that. But it was not my goal. The X-Alps, it was more for my sponsor because to do some expedition, you need some sponsor. And the sponsor

like to, when you do some competition and when you win some competition. So I did a little bit of competition. But my goal was all the time the expedition in the mountains. That was so nice. And as you said that you wanted to explore nature, I was checking out your videos. It said you've

Aninder: been to 5,000 meters in Ethiopia. Where did that come from? Like, Ethiopia and Norway are not usually, you know, these places which offer super high flying. But you still managed to touch 5,000 meters in Ethiopia. And I mean, I understand Norway wasn't that successful because of the weather conditions. But still, basically, how do you choose your locations when you chase or plan your expedition? What's the drive behind it? Is it just a pretty spot which looks really nice, or is it something more than that? Or is it like, okay, it has to be high, the cloud base has to be really tall, and it has to be really pretty, and so that it looks good in the video and also for yourself? How do you do that?

Antoine Girard: Me, I would like to explore all the world, but it's very big, so it's difficult. So every year, I choose one big destination with a big project like Himalaya, like... in Pakistan, like in South America, something like that. And the second one is more to explore something. So sometimes it's like Ethiopia, like Norway, like New Zealand, like some place like that. But I don't have the goal to break a new world record of altitude or something like that. When I did two times, I break two times the world record of altitude, one times world record of difference of ground altitude. But at each time, it was not a goal. It's just my first time, I would like to fly over broad peak because I climbed two times

broad peak. So I would like to fly over the broad peak. But if I fly over the broad peak, I break the world record. But it was not the goal. The goal was to fly over broad peak. It was the same for the gain of altitude because I crossed the Cordillera of Ronde. And to cross the hand, I take off very low at 1,000 meters. And when I cross the hand, I would like to fly over Aconcagua. It's close to 7,000 meters. So if I take off at 1,000 meters and I fly over 7,000 meters, for sure I will break the world record of gain of altitude. This is the difference between the lowest flight and the

highest flight in one flight. But another time, the goal was not to break the record. The goal was to fly over Aconcagua. Because the number is not a goal for me. The adventure is a goal. And I would like to discover a lot of things everywhere in the world. So I change the place everywhere, every time. Each year I go to a different place, but also I have some goals. Sometimes, like this year, I would like to fly over 9,000. So I go again in Pakistan. But I like to go in a new place. For example, today I will go in Colombia. It will be my first time in Colombia just to explore the place.

I don't go to break a new record or something like that. It's just to enjoy and discover the place. That's so nice to hear. I mean, if you're

Aninder: breaking world records without even trying, I can only imagine how many world records will come your way if you start actually trying for them. But if you're going to Colombia, then you should check out our podcast with Paul Takats. I will send you a link later on. We had him on the show earlier, and he gives us all the details about how to fly in Colombia and where all are the good places. And he lives in Colombia, so... He should be a very good resource. But coming back to your mental preparation, if just for the perspective of our listeners, when you decide that, okay, this is my location, this is what I'm going to do, is there a certain way you start thinking that you start preparing yourself mentally? I mean,

Aninder: of course, you have the logistics and you have the sponsors and everything, but just trying to... inculcate that in your mind? Is there a certain way that motivates you to start thinking after you've decided that I'm going to make it happen? When I do a project, a big project, I have

Antoine Girard: two times for that. The first time is to prepare the logistics, of course. But it's not only the logistics, like a sponsor or something like that. It depends where I go. I take one example. I cross Chile, Chile, from the south to the north. It's 3,000 kilometers. And at the middle, I have 1,500 kilometers of desert. But it's a mountain of desert. It's very high altitude desert. But I'm sure I don't have water. So I take something like two months to check all the images from satellites to find where it's possible to find some water. And I write on the map all the places where it's possible to find water. And when I find a place with water, like a small area, I check the date of the picture of a satellite. And I check

different pictures of the season to know if I go in January or February, if I can have water or not. And for that, it's a work of two months because it's close to 2000 kilometers of desert and you have to check everything. It's a very long job. And after I finish all this works, I'm ready to go. I need to prepare with my mental because I'm sure it will be hard. And if you, for example, if I go tomorrow in this expedition, for sure, I will stop after one week or two weeks because it's too hard. But if you have a good preparation, with your mental, you go in the expedition

and you can check all the situation. Okay, if I am in my expedition and I have this problem, how is it possible to resolve? And I do this work for a long time. And when I'm totally ready with that, I'm sure I have checked everything and I did the expedition in my head many times. I'm sure I can go inside because I have already prepared everything. Everything what's happened. Okay, if I have this problem, I can do that. If I have this problem, I can do other things. And for me, it's very, very important to prepare something like that. Now, that's so nice to hear,

Aninder: because for us as audience, we only see the video that you put out on YouTube or Facebook later on. And it just looks so easy, man. You make it look so easy. But I can only imagine the amount of hard work and thinking that goes behind making all of these realizations in the project. This brings me to next question. So let's say you have done all your homework, you have chosen your location, you have everything prepared. Now, finally, when you reach a new place and you're there now and you're there at the takeoff, what does acclimatization in your projects look like in paragliding terms? Like how do you acclimatize yourself? specific to paragliding because I saw on your website you said that people who can

Aninder: join you on the 8,000 meters will have to acclimatize. So I just want to give our listeners a bit of a perspective that how do you acclimatize when you're going for a paragliding expedition? For the acclimatize, it's only for the altitude expedition. For normal expedition, we don't

Antoine Girard: need that. We have to be acclimatized when you fly over 5,000 meters. And to do that, it's simple. Just you have to go on the place or another place. And you will sleep at the beginning at something like 3,000 meters. And the next day at 3,500, and the next day you climb more and more. And you need just to spend time to have a good acclimatization. But you have to go step by step. I see. What I was wondering is that once you start flying,

Aninder: let's say you go to Skardu and you go to Karimabad, as you said, or any of these locations in Peru that you were, do you start your expedition from day one itself or do you go there and you fly around the area a little bit, you just check out how the topography is, how the conditions are? How do you spend your first two, three days after reaching the place of action or the place of your project? It depends on the place. Because if I go, for

Antoine Girard: example, in Peru, I cross Peru from the north to the south. I was the first to do that and I'm alone to do that at this moment. It's a new place. So nobody flew before at this place. So at the beginning, when you arrive, you have to check the weather for two or three days. You check in the morning, in the middle of the day, at the end of the day. You understand the wind, you understand the weather and everything. And when you are sure it's safe to fly, you can fly. But at the beginning, sometimes I stay two or three, four days, and I do nothing. Just a small flight, just to

check how it works. and when i'm sure i go inside but when you arrive from your country in a new country normally you have to read because you travel a lot and everything it's good to have a rest and just take time to check everything and and after you can go inside Makes sense, makes

Aninder: sense. I think now I would like to come about your 8,000 meter flights. So let's say once you start, you know, reaching, is it Skardu where you land and eventually you take a trek to Karimabad? Is that how these flights happen in Pakistan?

Antoine Girard: Normally when we go into Pakistan, We go directly to Karimabad because Karimabad is a small city and we have easy takeoff at 20 minutes of walk. It's very, very easy. If you go in Skardu, the Skardu area is forbidden to fly. So you have to go a little bit after Skardu and you need maybe 8 or 10 hours of walk to have a takeoff. So it can be very, very long. So normally we go in Karimabad because it's very, very easy. And we take time to fly in Karimabad. And it's not difficult to move from Karimabad to Skardu in flights. It's not an easy flight, of course. It's a flight of 150

kilometers. And you have to fly over Spantik. Spantik is 7,000 meters. It's possible to pass the Spontik by a pass, but the pass is maybe 6,000 meters. It's very high. But it's not a difficult flight. It's a very, very beautiful commitment, of course, because you have a lot of glaciers. And if you land, maybe you have to walk, I don't know, five days, something like that, to go outside the glacier. But it's not very difficult, but a commitment. Right. I'm just wondering if you are a normal pilot who is usually used to flying in European or in

Aninder: civilization, I would say. I would not just say European conditions. But if you're an average flyer who flies, let's say, 100 hours a year and flies a sea glider and the usual altitude that you reach is 3,000, 4,000 meters maximum in normal places to fly. How different is flying in places where you can reach 8,000 meters? Basically, where does the air start feeling different? Where do your wings start behaving differently? How do How do thermals behave in this kind of thin air and collapses? And if you can just tell us, how does flying differentiate from normal flying conditions that a lot of pilots fly in compared to this places like where the air is thin and the mountains are high? To

Antoine Girard: understand, we have to know that when you go in very high altitude, you have less and less air. So the air is very thin. And for your glider, you have only one difference. This is the speed. If you fly in, I don't know, at 2000 meters, you will fly around 40 kilometers. If you fly around 8000 meters, you will fly at 60 kilometers. And if you are in the middle, it's 50 kilometers or something like that. But at 8,000 meters, it's 60. And when you do that, you have to know everything is more fast. If you have a collapse, it's more fast because everything goes fast. It's same for

the landing, because if you fly at 40 km, if you want to land, you wait for 20 km, so you will land around 15 and 20 km. If you land at 5000 m, you will fly around 50 km.

So when you brake for the landing, you will land at 25 km or 30 km. It's very fast, so it's difficult to run. So it's more difficult to land. And also everything is fast. And for the other things, it's exactly the same.

The biggest difference is the speed. But when you fly in high altitude, you have another problem. It's because you don't have a lot of oxygen. And if you don't have a lot of oxygen, your brand goes very slowly. True. So the glider goes very fast and you won't go very slowly. So it's not very easy. It's why I propose some oxygen. For when the people don't know the high altitude, it's good to have oxygen because with oxygen, it's like you're down of 2,000 meters. So if you fly at 6,000 meters, it's like to fly at 4,000 meters. So it's not difficult. It's better like this. I see.

Aninder: Antoine, I want to ask you this question about death zone. This word is used very common in mountaineering and usually a lot of mountaineers say above 8,000 it is known as death zone. Life does not sustain there very well and humans are not supposed to be there for long enough. But when you push the limit in a cockpit like in a canopy like ours which is unpressurized, you're open, Is oxygen enough to keep you safe and alert in those altitudes? Or can you only fly above 8000 for very limited time because of the dangers that come with it? And it is just that one or two

thermals and after that you have to descend. Like, how does life look in that zone when you're flying a paraglider, basically? In first, when

Antoine Girard: you fly at 8000 meters, it's not possible to fly, for example, for me for tomorrow because I need acclimatization. If you have a good acclimatization, it's like the mountaineer, you can go at 8000 meters with no problem. And for the mountaineer, they can stay 3, 4, 5 days at 8000 meters before to have some big problem. But with a paraglide, when you fly at 8,000 meters, it's maximum for one hour or two hours. If you compare with a fourth day, it's like nothing. And another thing, when you fly, if you are bad or something like that, you can down in five minutes. When you are in the mountain, you need maybe four, five, six hours to down. And in mountain, you have to walk. It's a big effort. It's

very, very hard. When you fly, you do nothing. You stay in your harness and just pilot with the bike. So you don't do a big effort. So you need less oxygen than to do sport. So it's not very difficult to go at 8,000 meters. Okay, that's very encouraging to hear. I'm pretty sure if there are some

Aninder: mountaineers listening to this, they want to try paragliding as well because it's easier and it gets you to 8,000 much quicker than what it takes on foot. Just quickly before we move on, I wanted to touch upon the topic of thermals and scratching because I have heard... Sometimes Tom de Dordodot or a lot of other pilots talking that thermals stop after a certain height and then you have to scratch. How do you find lift after a certain height? Do they go all the way or does it become hard after a while? Like I was seeing a video of yours from Broad Peak where you were at

Aninder: 7,600 meters without oxygen, if you can recall that one, and you were just drifting above and it seemed pretty windy at that height. So how is basically lift and how does wind behave after a certain height once, yeah? Yeah. Yes, like everywhere, the thermals are different. So

Antoine Girard: sometimes in back history, you can climb at 6,000 meters. Sometimes it's 7,000, sometimes it's 8,000 meters with a thermal. My first flight in 2016, I'm going at 8,100 meters with one thermal.

Wow. With different thermal, but only with thermal. And I had wind only after 8,100 meters. But my last world record at 8,400 meters, the thermal stopped at 7,600 meters. And after this altitude, I used only the wind to climb. But every day is different. So we know what is the limit of the thermal. What is the maximum altitude, something like that, nobody knows. So for sure, when it's windy, you have a wave with the wind and you can climb in this wave. The last time I flew at 8,400, but I was in a wave and I climbed at 4 or 5 meters per second every time. But I decided to

stop because my goal was to fly at 8,400 to prepare my project. Okay, I'm at this altitude, so I go outside the wave. And I'm sure it was possible to fly, sure, 8,600 and maybe 9,000 this day. But I was not ready, so I decided to stop. That sounds so exciting just to hear. I'm getting

Aninder: goosebumps. You mentioned wave flying, and I've usually heard there's some bit of turbulence that is included. How does glider control look like above a certain level? Because obviously, once you exit a terminal at a certain level, there is a bit of a shear factor. So is there a lot of turbulence above a certain height or is it calm air or is it just as it is normal in flying? How does glider control differentiate from lower altitudes to higher ones? For the turbulence, it's similar in Europe, exactly the same. When you go outside the thermal, you can have some

Antoine Girard: turbulence. But normally, everywhere in the world, you have a lot of turbulence when you have wind and thermal. Because the wind fights with the thermal and creates some turbulence. But in Pakistan, it's a little bit different because not all the mountains, but a lot of mountains are at 7,000 or 8,000 meters. So the wind is broken by the mountain. So you don't have wind. Under 7,500 meters, something like that, you don't have wind. So you have only thermal, and when you have only some thermal and not wind, it's not turbulent. For me, we have more turbulence in Europe than in Pakistan, under 7,500 meters.

Aninder: Very interesting. And I think let's go to Peru for a little while, because I remember I read your Facebook post where you said after 7,800, it was absolute nightmare until you reached 8,000 meters and the cloud just sucked you in. Can you help our listeners know what basically happened and how did the temperatures reach minus 35? Like that... That seems scary. Can equipment failure happen when it is so cold? Minus 35 means everything is just freezing. Can the paraglider even handle that kind of temperatures at that height? Yes, in Peru, it was not a goal to fly

Antoine Girard: at 8,000 meters, but we were on a plateau at 5,000 meters, something like that. And when we flew, at this moment, we had a very, very strong wind from the forest. It came from Brasilia to Peru. And in other way, we have a very strong wind from the plateau of Peru to go to the forest. And we have in one, what is the name? Convergence. Convergence. It's a convergence, no? Yeah. Yes, we have a big convergence with these two winds. And I managed to climb in this convergence. And I fly safely until 7,000 meters, maybe 7,300 meters, something like that. It was cool and very fun. But in maybe 10 seconds, the thermal convergence will change because we have a big cloud. We will be created by the cold wind and the hot

wind. And in 10 seconds, I lose the view. I go inside the cloud. Normally, when you go inside a cloud, you are all the time on the border of the cloud. So I climb a little bit like that on the border. But after 200 or 300 meters on the border of the cloud, I go inside because sometimes you go a little bit inside because it moves very, very fast. So it's difficult to control. But when you go inside, you turn back and you go outside. Just you need 10 seconds. But at this moment, I have a very big collapse when I go inside. I open my glider again and I lose the direction. I don't know if

I have to go in this direction or another one. And the air was very, very turbulent. So we have a lot of collapse every time. But I have a lot of collapse, and it was not possible to have one way, because I go for 10 meters in this direction. I have a new collapse, and I turn on the right. For example, I go on the right. It was not possible to have a direction, because my instrument, well, not with my instrument. I went to check my instrument, but the turbulence was too strong. It was not possible to take one direction. And I don't have direction with the view because I

was in the cloud. So I don't have sun, I don't have the ground, I have nothing. And I have a lot of collapse. And with the collapse, I climb like maybe six or seven meters per second. Wow. It was not a good moment. And when I arrived around 7,800 meters, the cloud was very, very cold. And my glasses were totally frozen. So it was impossible to see something. My instrument is the same. The screen was totally frozen. So I don't have information. And after a fight around 8,000 meters, I see the sun on the summit because this is the end of the cloud. So I managed to take one

direction. I take the direction of the sun and I go straight. Not in the good direction, but I go outside the cloud. And the temperature was at minus 35 degrees. And at this moment, I was not ready to go at 8,000 meters. So I don't have the clothes for that. I have a small glove, and I have nothing for that. So I was totally scared. I was afraid and totally frozen. My hand doesn't work. No, for me, it was not a good moment. I can

Aninder: imagine. I'm so glad that you managed to come out safely. But I cannot help but imagine when the glider is collapsing again and again, is it basically collapsing and still getting sucked by the cloud? Because is that what you're telling me, that six, seven meters it is going up even when it's collapsing? So the suck in the cloud is so damn high and the temperature is falling and everything is happening. It must seem like you're in a washing machine or something like that. at that kind of time. Yes, for me, I was totally afraid. I didn't want to do that. I did a small

Antoine Girard: mistake. I go inside and now I have to assume I have to do something, but I don't know what. For me, I was thinking maybe I'm dead because I can do nothing. I'm like a paper in a storm. No, I can imagine. For me it was a very bad moment. Maybe the most bad for a while. Well, let's hope that never

Aninder: happens. But just talking about equipment at minus 35, Antoine, do you have any idea if gliders or the paragliders, because they're just made out of cloth and thin lines, Are they even designed to handle weather conditions like this? Is there a chance that lines could just freeze and break off or something like that? Because I think deploying a reserve in such difficult conditions is pretty much difficult because obviously a reserve is just going to get sucked in as well and get thrown around here and there. So is our aircraft, the paraglider, is it even designed to go in such extreme conditions? Do you have any idea about that? Yes, for the materials, I speak at the beginning, before 2016, I speak a lot with the

Antoine Girard: manufacturer. Well, not with the manufacturer, most with the people who create the line, the people who create the tissue. I speak with them and I ask if I go at minus 20 or more and everything, what's happened? And they tell me for the material, it's exactly the same. We have no difference. It can be different if you go at, I don't know, maybe minus 200, something like that. But at the normal temperature, minus 50, we don't have a problem. So I'm sure it's not a problem. But for me, the rescue is not one option. Because you tell that we are in like a storm or with a very, very big thermal and with a parachute, maybe you climb more and it's very dangerous and you can't choose your direction. And

another thing also, When you fly in very high altitude, you have a big difference with a rescue. Because when you use a rescue, normally you will land at something like minus five or six meters per second. It's very fast. But if you land at 5,000 meters, for example, Because the ground is 5,000 meters. True. With the rescue, you will land at something minus 11, minus 13 kilometers, meters per second. What? So I think you break your two legs. So it's not an option to use the rescue. For that, if you want to land with a rescue at 5,000 meters, you need a rescue of a tandem, not a normal rescue. But in expedition, when you have a bag of 30 kilos, you can't have an additional 2 kilos for the rescue. Wow. In

fact, in all my expeditions, I have a rescue, but it's for nothing. It's just for my mind because, okay, if I have a problem, I have a rescue. But in fact, I can't use the rescue. Yeah, I can imagine coming down at minus 10 or anything beyond is a sure shot injury. But anyways, let's hope that

Aninder: situation never comes for anyone. But okay, now coming to the point where you have this 8000paragliding.com

which allow people to join you in these amazing flights that you are making it happen. I just want to bring out to our listeners, if there is somebody who is interested in joining this, what kind of background should they have in paragliding? Like, what kind of a pilot should they be to be able to join you safely and make it a memorable experience above 8,000 meters? What kind of pilot are you looking for? For me, I ask people

Antoine Girard: to fly often 100 kilometers in the Alps, for example, not in the flatland. For the flatland, it's more like 200 kilometers. Because if you fly often 100 kilometers in the Alps, you will cross all the conditions that you can find in Pakistan. Because for me, in Pakistan, it's more safe than in the Alps. For sure, it's more safe. But sometimes you can have a storm, you can have something. So it's good to have a good level. In Pakistan, what is difficult is to fight with the altitude. So it's good to have a better level than you need to fight with the altitude. But I'm sure it's more safe to fly in Pakistan than in the Alps for the turbulence. But for flying, it's difficult also with altitude. So it's

different. I see. But anybody who usually is able to navigate 100 kilometers in Alps is kind of ready to take on the conditions in Pakistan

Aninder: and also chase the glory above 8,000 with you so far. Yes, yes, it's possible. But it's all the time the same. This is the level to enter in the

Antoine Girard: expedition. After, if you want to break the world record, if you want to do a flight of 200 kilometers in Pakistan or 300, because last year Iran did 300 kilometers in Pakistan, you need a better level. with 100 km in the Alps. This is the level to enter the expedition and try to go to fly at 7000 or something like that. So nice. So nice to hear that. I just want to come to basically the type of glider. These days we see a lot of

Aninder: two-liners coming on the market and a lot of them are like they're very collapse resistant. They don't collapse that easily and they are much more efficient than three-liners. Is there a difference between how a two-liner and three-liner behaves in these expeditions? And is there any preferred recommendation that you should have a three- liner or a two-liner to be on a safer side or on a more easier side? Let me put it across that way. Yes, for me, in fact, we have three kinds of gliders. You have the glider with three lines, the glider with two lines. But in the

Antoine Girard: two lines, you have two different kinds of gliders. You have the glider like the Zeno or Enzo. It's very high level. And the glider like Zeolite, it's another level. It's intermediate. And it's very different. A lot of people who flow a lot with a Zeolite take, for example, a Zeno, and after two weeks, they stop because it's too hard. You have a big difference between a Zeolite and a Zeno. But you don't have a big difference between a three-liner and a Zeolite, for example. Okay. So we have to understand, for me, we have three kinds of gliders. But in all cases, when you go in Pakistan, for example, you need to have an easy level. For me, I fly all the time with a Zeno in France or in the Alps or

somewhere. But when I go in Pakistan, I take a Zeolite because it's the most easy and... You can do everything. If you have a big collapse, it's easy to open and everything. So if you're down of one level, it's better to down from one level to go in Pakistan or somewhere in the world for a new place. Okay, but at the same time, it is possible to fly two-liners if you're already very experienced in flying two-liners in your life and

Aninder: at that location. Yes, I think it's possible. For me, I do all my expeditions with zeolites. But sometimes, it's not the goal for the

Antoine Girard: next year, but maybe in two years or three years, I will go in Pakistan to break distance record. And in this case, I will take Zeno. But to break altitude record or to go in the mountain, do some combo and everything, I prefer to have an easy glider. So I take something like Zeolites. I'm

Aninder: sure if Aaron is listening to this, he's already planning his next expedition when you say that you're planning to break distance record in Pakistan. Because I think currently Aaron is the one who's holding the distance record, is it? Yes. Wow. This should be exciting. I'm very excited to see what flying has, paragliding has in store for us as mere audiences. Right. Now, I think we are reaching the last part of the show, so I quickly want to read a couple of things. You have mesmerized audiences with all the visuals that you send across. How do you make a project and sell it to Netflix, man? That is so inspiring. I mean, for me, as an intermediate pilot in this sport, that seems to be the ultimate

Aninder: goal. Like, you know, you record something and it is so amazing that you put it on Netflix and then the world can get inspired by it, not just our community. So if you can talk, just tell our listeners, how did the project with you and Damien... materialize into a point where you were able to get it to Netflix and get it out there for everyone? How did that happen?

Antoine Girard: Yes, but in fact, we speak about the movie Lost in Karakorum, but Lost in Karakorum was a movie only for everybody, for the movie, for the festival. But Finally, it was a good movie. And this is Netflix. Well, not Netflix, because I have one man who sell my movie. And Netflix speak with this man. And they asked me to put my movie on Netflix. When you do a movie, you have two options. You go in expedition to do a movie. Or other things. It's what I do. I go on an expedition and after I check if I can do a movie or not. Because a lot of people go on an expedition only to do a

movie. It's a different approach. And it's why also my movies are not with a very good image, with a good camera. Because I'm alone. When I go on an expedition, I have my GoPro, I have my solar panel and everything, but I'm alone. I'm not with a team, with a car or with a helicopter or something like that to do some image. I have only the image of me and my friend. Because the goal at first is to do the expedition, is not to do a movie. So just focus on making the magic happen and everything else just falls into place, I think. Is that what you're saying? Yes, exactly

that. For me, the image is not important. I like to take some images to show everybody what I do. But the goal is to do my expedition, to do my goal, to cross a lot of cases, to cross one country. And I'm on my goal to cross the country. So I go and if I can do some image, I do some image. So

Aninder: nice. It's so inspiring to see your images. Anyways, now I think we are reaching the last part of the show. And I remember checking out your website. You're supporting this charity called Alice Porex Association, which means that if you have any old wings, or any harnesses that you don't need that can help build the community that you're building in Pakistan. Would you like to talk a little bit about that, just so that our listeners, if they're in a position, they can go ahead and support that cause of yours? Yes, when I was in Pakistan for

Antoine Girard: flying in 2016 for the first time for flying, I crossed a lot of people and they dream about flying because they show me to fly in the sky and everything. But for me, I can't help them because they need to learn. They need to do everything. It's expensive and it's too difficult. But I come back years after years because I'm going seven times in Pakistan. And at the last time, in the last summer of 2022, when I was in Pakistan, I discovered they have 16 pilots in Karimabad in one small village. They begin to learn with very, very old paraglides. For example, a lot of lines are not a line of paragliding. It's just a rope or something like that because they break a line. They have some training on the ground. I

think they have three pilots who fly sometimes in the sky, but all others don't fly. They do some grounding on the ground to understand and learn. And I understand me that now they want to learn to fly, and it's not possible to stop that. Because me, I'm a little bit afraid that they have an accident or something like that. But now they begin to learn. They find some materials. So we decide to help all the pilots. And the last summer, we teach at all the team a lot of time because we do earth expedition. But we have a lot of day where the weather is not clear or it's

windy or we have something. So in this day, we go with the local pilot and we teach some grounding. We teach some things. They learn very fast, and they do that with a lot of... Well, they do that with be careful, because they understand if they don't have the level, they don't have to fly. If this is the truth, they don't go. And they... They understand that because a lot of pilots in the world want to fly and, okay, it's windy, but it's not a problem. They go and they have an accident. But in Pakistan, at this place, this is totally different. And I think it's because, I don't

remember when, but a couple of years ago, they have one accident of local pilots and he's dead. Oh, I know. So... It's bad, but they understand we can do everything with a paraglide. We need to learn and go step by step. So after that, when I come back in France, I decided to help the local pilot and I call my colleague with one association. The name of this association is El Pourreux. They work everywhere in the world, they collect old gliders, or not old, but old second hand gliders, because it's not all the time old. They check the glider and if it's good, they send it to some poor people in the world. They send some gliders everywhere in the world. And with this association, I decided to call

them and we speak together. And we managed to collect 20 gliders to send at this place. But it's only old gliders because the first step is to have some grounding gliders to learn just the grounding. and i hope for the next year to find some second hand glider where with this glider it's possible to fly and when they have the level they will they can go at the second step and begin to fly alone but for that i need to go for the next summer to to teach a lot and if i works well or If the weather is bad, because if the weather is good, I will be in the sky. If we find the time, I

can teach with my friends. It's not only me, of course. And they will learn. I hope in one year or two years, it's 15 pilots will fly in the sky, the local pilots. And we don't want to help only one time. The goal is to help every year. We do that. I begin to do that, and I hope it will work. For the moment, we collect 20 gliders, and the glider will send in 10 days, normally. So they will arrive in February, because we send by boat. It's a long way. And I hope I can teach in May when I go in Pakistan. That's so nice to hear that you're putting something back in the community and

Aninder: making such a big difference because the art of flight fascinates us regardless of where you're born. And I'm just wondering if somebody who's listening to this wants to donate an old glider that they have sitting in their garage or in their shed, where do they send this? And if you send us the link, maybe we'll also put it in the show notes for people to have a look at it later on. To collect the glider, it's not me, this is

Antoine Girard: the association El Pourre. It's a French association. They can collect, well, everybody can send a glider or give a glider everywhere in France and we find the association we send to the El Pourre. We can collect everywhere in France or close to France. And the association do some checking with professional people. because they don't take a glider if the people tell it's a good glider they don't sound like that they take they open they go in a special place to check the the tissue to check the line and everything and if they have a certificate they can send in another place And also, they need money to send the glider. Because to send the glider in Pakistan for 20 gliders, for example, I

asked a lot of people if they can do a donation of money. But not a lot. Sometimes it's 10 euros or 20 euros. Sometimes it's 100 or more just to send the glider. To send the glider in Pakistan for this... For this 20 glider, we need 800 euros, for example. It's not a lot, but we have to find this money because if we sell every year, after a lot of time, it's a lot of money also. True, true, true. Well, I think with that, Antoine, we have

Aninder: told our listeners everything that you have been saying. doing. And the only thing that comes to my mind is what does 2024 have in store for you? And when is the 9,000 meter mark getting replaced or reached by you? When is that happening? And what's coming? I'm super excited to hear your reply on this. Normally for this year, I will go to Pakistan in May to do some combo with alpinist and paragliding. I would like to climb 3 7,000

Antoine Girard: meters. So I will land in the mountain and climb these three mountains. I would like also to do a lot of combo with ski. So this is a perfect place to do that because you take off at 3,000 meters from the city with your ski in your back. You go in the mountain. You land at 5,000 or 6,000 meters. You use the ski to down. You ski a little bit, like 1,000 meters. You take off again. And in the evening, you stay in the hotel and you sleep in the hotel and you do that another day. And I do that because it's fun and I like to climb, I like to do ski and everything, but it's also for my

acclimatization. After that, for sure, if I climb two or three times at 7,000 meters, I will be ready to fly at 9,000 meters. And at the beginning of July, I will go in Baltoro for six weeks for me. And at this moment, I hope to break, not to break the world record, because I would like to fly over K2. But if I fly over K2, it's 8,600 meters. For sure, I break the world record. Again, but if I want to break something, it's not the world record. It breaks the limit of 8,000 meters. Can I ask you, how many world records do you have already to your name? World

record normally, I have two world records of altitude. Okay. And one world record again of altitude. three world records. And I have a lot of premieres in the world, like across Peru, across, I don't know, I have a lot of things where I was the first and alone to do that. What a life, man. What a life. Cannot stop obsessing

Aninder: over it, Antoine. Antoine, on that note, we have come to the end of the show. Thank you so, so much for giving your time to Paragliding Atlas. Immensely amazing talking to you. And I'm pretty sure if any of our listeners wants to follow your footsteps, they can jump on your website. Would you like to leave on a note, if you had to give... A small advice to a budding pilot, somebody who has just started the sport and wants to follow your footsteps. What should they be doing to become Antoine of future?

Antoine Girard: For me, the most important is to have fun in all cases. You don't have to have a goal to break a world record, to break something, to be the first in the world to do something. The most important is to have fun. If you have a lot of fun, for sure you will do some big things. Sounds like a perfect

Aninder: suggestion, Antoine. You seem to truly have found your calling. But on that note, Antoine, thank you so much, as I said earlier, and keep rocking. You inspire us beyond measure and we wish you all the success and cannot wait to see your future endeavors coming up. Thank you. It's

Antoine Girard: been a pleasure.