Flying & Filming 3 : Andreas Lattner (hochzwei.media)

Aninder: hello everyone welcome back to your weekly dose of awesomeness here at paragliding atlas podcast and today's episode as you can see is the first of its kind video edition yes we have been experimenting a little bit behind the scenes and we have finally decided to go ahead in an audio visual format so this is episode one which is coming to you exclusively in video format so you get to watch and connect not just with me as a host but also with the guests and understand the whole context of the conversation in a whole lot better manner but today's episode is about dreaming and manifesting um i understand this this word has been thrown around for quite a while now but you know i can start by saying that we

often find dreamers in almost every aspect of life you know us included like who doesn't love to dream and imagine their best life possible but Of course, only few are strong enough to truly believe in that dream and take actions required to move in that direction. And how hard they eventually end up moving depends on motivation and circumstances that one faces along the way. And then we of course come across a rare class of individuals who refuse to give up no matter what life throws at them. And this is what makes today's episode super special because it is a story of one such power couple who risked it all and that too in one of the most expensive economies in the world, where even dreaming away from the

usual nine to five seems like an impossible challenge because of the high costs of living and taxes. I mean, you name it. We all know surviving in Western Europe is a constant struggle with having money come into your account every single month. But as we all know, where there's a will, there's a way. And Andreas and his partner just shows us how simple yet powerful The mantra of dream, believe, and achieve can lead to a truly fulfilling life. A life where work doesn't feel like work anymore. A life where possibilities to go out and play are endless. So this is just another gem of a masterclass. brought to you straight from paragliding atlas studios here in oslo norway and yes best of all it's

completely free as we have mentioned earlier it resonates with bringing the whole information to the community at zero cost to consumer but all that we ask for is a like subscribe and share if you can goes a long way in spreading the message out to the community helps us keep motivated to create this more awesomeness towards you and keep the love growing so without further ado tune in and i hope you like it and moreover if you have any comments please feel free to reach out in the way preferred to you and i'll be sure to follow up on them thank you

andreas what an absolute honor to finally have you in paragliding atlas for flying and filming part three man how's life treating you these days

Andreas Lattner: Thanks for having me, Aninda, although it was quite a challenge because we are very busy renovating a house we bought about one year ago. We are hopefully at the final stages so we can move in fully soon. That's what keeps me busy the last weeks. So from what I see, you seem to be living the

Aninder: dream life in a van. Now you're talking about moving to a permanent structure. Is that the transition of life that you're talking about?

Andreas Lattner: Yes, but in the last year, we had quite some chance to make a gradually transition to get used to a house again. But still, we very much like living in the camper. As you see, I'm recording this in our camper because I'm still used to work in here. So the desk where I'm sitting is still my workplace. And so I thought, ah, maybe I get out here and I feel more comfortable here. And the transition in the house was, yeah, it was not because we were missing something on the road in our camper van. We had everything that we need and even much more. But we knew that we don't

want to live in a camper forever. Once we would like to have a fixed base camp again. And we were just looking if we could find a house or a small flat that we can buy. And yeah, last year, after five years on the road, we bought this little house. Five years of nonstop awesomeness. What I was

Aninder: wondering is, I've been looking through your media, your website, and there's a lot of interesting content. Andreas, just for the perspective of our audiences, if you could give us a little bit of introduction. Who are you guys and how do you make life so awesome? Sure.

Andreas Lattner: So Hochzwei, as we call our website and as we are called on Instagram, that's me and my wife Marlies. We also married this year, so the year was very intense. Thank you. We are living together for 10 years now and we met on the mountains. We share the same interest and passion. We are both climbers. So we started to climb together and had a good time in the mountains. After a while, we had a good time down in the valley as well. Marlies is a journalist. So she knew already what a good story is, how to write the good story, what people are interested in. And I was always

into photography and a little bit of filming. And so this came together and increased. Now we are producing stories for magazines. We like to present our own stories in live presentations in front of an audience. We do a little film work. and everything that comes. Since we are freelance and self-employed, we are fully open for interesting jobs. Just for the perspective of paragliding, how long have you guys been

Aninder: flying for? What are the average hours you clock per year? And what is the lifetime airtime you guys have had? Tell us a little bit about your paragliding journey. So I started paragliding maybe 12 years ago and Mali is a little bit shorter, maybe nine years. I cannot count the hours,

Andreas Lattner: the airtime that we have because we are most passionate about hike and fly. So we don't care if we just glide down and it takes 10, 15 or 20 minutes. This is for me still the most interesting thing. way of paragliding. I have full respect for all the cross country pilots and the few times that I tried cross country flights, I realized what's so tricky about it. But for Marlies and me, it's still about combining paragliding with climbing and mountaineering. So it's not about the average hours, but I think we have quite a list of mountains that we took off in different areas. I can imagine that side is a very fascinating side of aviation as well, because blows my mind let's say rewind the

Aninder: clock back to a couple of generations nobody would have ever imagined the wing was invented and fairly not that long ago but let's say our grandfather was like nobody would have ever thought that you could climb up a mountain and then fly down within 60 seconds or something so I think you guys are going out and showing the world how to live mountaineering life. Yes, and especially in combination with

Andreas Lattner: mountaineering, it really opens new possibilities. When I just think about that in this summer, some guys took off from the summit of K2 in Karakoram. This is just amazing. Or friends of mine in Switzerland in the Eiger Jungfrau area, they go up by cable car and fly into a valley for ski mountaineering. where you usually it's very hard to get there and so they fly there and do ski touring then fly back so these are just

Aninder: possibilities that are yeah new what a life man what a dream so i see that you guys are creating your dream on the move so how does an average year look for you guys when you're chasing adventures on the wheels and what is the stoke all about I think the essence is that in the past 10 years, I

Andreas Lattner: cannot give you an average year because every year is different. And yes, I think that's the core of what life is for us. Of course, sometimes you think, I wish I would just have a few weeks of straight planning and know what to do and everything. But no. In the end, when I look back, it's always worth a little bit of insecure and so on. But therefore, you get so many memories and dreams that you can fulfill. I was just wondering,

Aninder: there's a lifestyle choice. Go do the 9 to 5 and come back and tell the stories of all the exciting things you did on your spreadsheet. Or you can go climb a mountain, fly down and escalate them to a whole different scenario and tell about all the adventures that came with the airtime. So you guys are definitely doing it right. And thank you for the inspiration you're sending out to the community and the world. People like me love to consume media like yours. But I quickly want to come to the German fact because I see both of you. Are both of you German nationality or what's your heritage because of the language that you transfer your media to your audiences? Yes. So we both speak German, but to be exact, we

Andreas Lattner: are in Austria. So a little bit different. Yes. I think you're doing it right. And talking about German, I'm super curious about your name

Aninder: because Let me try and say it correctly. It's Hochzwei Media. Is that correct? Almost correct. Hochzwei. All right. Tell us about this incredible name that you have. What is it all about? And how did you guys come up with this? Hochzwei means it's the combination of hoch, which

Andreas Lattner: means high, so high up, as we both like climbing and be high up on the mountains. And yes, zwei means two, so high two. We are together high up in the mountains. This is a little bit of idea behind the name. And the reason why we were looking for a name was simple because we started doing live presentations after our first expedition to Nepal. And we got more and more requests for if we can do this presentation here and there. So we had quite some dates then. So we said, okay, we need a website where we can just have the schedule on there. And we needed a name for the URL. We came

Aninder: to Hook2. You guys have made that website super interesting for all of our listeners. Just go check out the show notes and you'll find all the relevant links there. Believe me, it's a bliss to navigate the website. If you're German, it's a lot better. Thanks. I have to admit, most of the

Andreas Lattner: activity is on Instagram right now. So Malis is keeping this up to date and the website is still more for our presentation. Not so much regular content on there, but the highlights are on there and regular content is on Instagram. Now we'll come to the short form game later on. I quickly

Aninder: want to get your perspective on The visualization behind this dream, man. Tell me a little bit about how did you guys, because of course, a lot of us want to go out and live life on our own terms, find the courage to chase adventures other than nine to five. But the whole idea of putting yourself out to the public and speaking to an audience and passing on your infectious energy and inspiring others takes a lot of self-development and thinking. So how did you and your partner decide that it's time we spread this good to other people and not just to ourselves? Yes, it's a good question. And the answer is, as far as I learned from the last 10 years, the answer is rather simple. When I look

Andreas Lattner: back, it's about following your heart, what you really like to do. You dare to do something. So you need to do the steps. So not just hesitate and you need to have some engagement. So if you... Just follow what you really like to do. I'm fully convinced that you get the opportunities, the chances that you can do things in a field like this. For example, I always liked photography, taking photos. Since I'm going to the mountains, I always have my camera with me. Within all my friends, I was the one with the camera. My archive in Lightroom is maybe 20, 25 years now. But I never dreamed about, or I could never imagine about, yes, that I could earn money with my photos. But it was still something that I

really liked to do. And as I met Marlies and she's a journalist and we came together and made stories together, so I could pursue this way. And now I earn money by my photographs. So this is about the, yeah, follow your heart. And the other thing is, yeah, that you have to trust life and do the step. It's not always easy. It takes some commitment. In ordinary life that I was also living before this, I had a job in an office before, just nine to five ordinary job. And I think I couldn't imagine doing this. Thing where I really would say, okay, I would give up this and that

because I want to do this. It's not that easy as it sounds. 10 years later, you can look back and know, okay, it was this. Cool. But in the moment,

Aninder: it's not always easy. I love your honesty, Andreas, because a lot of us, and could be me included, we just love putting out the positive side and all the glory that comes with it. But the hard work, the blood, sweat, tears is also a part of the game, which you have to play, you like it or not. It's a part of the journey, which eventually turns out rewarding. For any of our listeners who are just being another brick in the wall right now, I think a lot of people are using the word manifestation these days. It's being thrown around by everyone. Manifest your way to glory and you

will be able to live out your dreams to the fullest. Mm- hmm. Another thing that I wanted to come to Andrea says that when we're talking about sharing your adventures and living your life in a certain way, being in extreme adventure sports is quite demanding. It takes a lot of planning. It takes a lot of effort. And there has to be a whole ecosystem built around it, which is very fragile. You're not, as you said, there's no monthly income coming and you're always on the move. Uncertainties are very high. And then you meet someone who's, hey, this seems like the trouble I want to be in. So let's get together and make the

most out of it. But when it comes to presenting yourself as a team versus as a solo creator, let's talk about that dynamic. How does having a plus one in front of the camera or behind the scenes as well affect chasing adventures? And what are the pros and cons? And what can people look forward to if they're trying to build a lifestyle like yours? so the fact that we are a couple for 10 years now and now married we really have the

Andreas Lattner: advantage that we know each other very well the harder a climb is or the more tricky a takeoff or a flight is yeah the more it pays off if you know each other well and you know what the other is thinking you can ask you can check yeah you have just a better feeling if you're a good team together this makes it a very positive point and inside the office for example it Very interesting because my personality is that I would, I'm a little bit of a perfectionist. So I have an exact vision how they should look like, and I want to achieve this. I could easily get lost in the details.

And Marlies is more a bit hands-on and yeah, Hey, let's do it this way. It's often the case that I just have an idea and I want to do this. And then Malis comes and we talk together and we do a little brainstorming and so on. And sometimes we have arguments with each other and he said, oh, no, we cannot do this like this. And we have to do it like that. But in the discussion. There is something evolving and maybe a few hours later or a few days later when we finish the project, we both sit there and say, wow, that's even greater than we could imagine individually. Like the

saying that one plus one is more than two. This is what we realize very often when we work together. This is inspiring the way you look at it. One

Aninder: plus one is more than two. I'm going to take that away. Tell me something about risk aversion, Andreas. As a solo pilot designing your adventures and living them, you have your own decision- making where you're like, this is a reward, this is a risk, it's up to me. But when you're doing it with a plus one, how does risk factor look like? And are there times when you're like, this is too risky for me or too risky for you, so I would go ahead and you walk down or something. So how do you guys navigate those kind of decision-making when factors arise? There is no

Andreas Lattner: one way that we deal with it. And it's not always easy to do these decisions, but we know each other very well, so We know how to figure them out. Two years ago, we climbed Manaslu in Nepal. And yeah, Amalia turned around because she was just too cold and exhausted. And it was a very good decision. I have to admit, a very brave decision as well. You invest a lot of time and money for this expedition. And then you have to decide for your own. You turn back at 7,400 meters. After walking for eight hours through the night, it was no question that she gave me the chance that I

can carry on alone because I really felt a little bit better. I made it to the summit, but a snowstorm came up and the way down was more tricky than I was hoping. In a big decision like this, it's absolutely no question that you are honest. But of course, there is no fixed, yeah, like how we cope with this. And I think the most important factor is to be honest, to say what's in your mind. And yeah, then you will figure it out. That makes

Aninder: a lot of sense. Before we move on to the next one, do you guys have a set of guidelines or bottom line of rules that regardless of whatever challenge we have, this is what our principles are and we're going to stick to this. Let's say when it comes to putting the boundaries together, why I'm asking this question is if somebody else is wanting to replicate what you're creating, should they try and have a red line of some sort. So like we can push until then, and then that is where the safety barrier comes because we are not just risking ourselves, but we're risking plus one. There is not a red line. So any measures that we know how far to go and not further, We don't have this, but one thing that

Andreas Lattner: comes to my mind in this case is we have the strong belief and we always say it very often, turning back is never a mistake. This is a very important thought and ideal and state of mind for us because it makes it easier for you to Just be open for, so if you're on a dangerous place and you have to take a decision whether to carry on or to change your plan or to fully turn back, this helps us just to be open also to think about turning back so you can think about what to do. If you have the strong belief and say often that turning back is never a mistake, it makes it much easier. Yeah. Love

Aninder: it, man. That point of view is so important, which is like live to fly another day. Save your energy for a more rewarding flight and it's going to be 10x. And in combination with paragliding, I feel this intense feeling even more than on climbing and mountaineering. When I'm on the

Andreas Lattner: takeoff, I really often feel so... Today I'm 99% convinced, but the last 1% is missing. I cannot tell you why, but 1% is missing. This is very often that I have this feeling and then I'm looking for, okay, what's this, what bothers me? If I cannot find out and fix it, I just do not take off. And I'm fully fine with this feeling. And sometimes I do not fly when others are flying. Sometimes I'm flying where others are not because I'm just 100%. On paragliding, you have this exact moment where you decide to take off and then you take off. So it's a very... Zero or one decision,

more or less. In mountaineering, you can always say, okay, I go a little bit further, just a few steps more. Let's move on for 15 minutes. Let's decide then. Let's see over the next ridge and so on. So it's more a process where you can decide on paragliding. It's on the takeoff here. You just have to decide yes or no. Now, I agree. The mountaineering is a whole day-long expedition where the consequences or the rewards don't

Aninder: come instantly. Paragliding is a lot more quicker. I can only imagine what speed flying and skydiving and base jumping is. I quickly want to touch upon van life perspective, Andreas. Living in a small house as a grown-up is hard enough. And living in a small place on wheels with two people with all your equipment and toys. Tell us about House on Wheels. What are the good and bad sides of this kind of place? Instagram tells us there's no bad side. But in reality, the freedom comes with other things. How do you guys navigate that? And how has your life revolved around this aspect? So living in a camper van is really simple. That's the absolute best thing about it. People always imagine it must be hard.

Andreas Lattner: It's a little space and all the equipment that you have with you. Here, the best advantage is our small paragliders. We have the Air Design Susi, the perfect wing for us. It has two kilograms. No problem. We have it in our camper all the time. We have equipment for mountain climbing, ice climbing, higher peaks and so on. We have everything in our camper when, except for our skis in winter and When you live on a small place like this, you realize what you really need. And this is way less than you think. Your carbon footprint definitely goes down like anything compared to living in a house. If you mentioned the carbon footprint, the camper, when it's a Fiat Ducato, six meter long, it's just a big car.

And you avoid going short distances with this. So we drive really little. We have a little bit more than 100,000 kilometers on our way now after five years, and we have been to Norway, Morocco, Greece, and so on. Another topic that is really interesting and that we learned living in the camper is, for example, the water consumption. In our camper, we have to put in the water from a fountain, a small hose, or a camping area. And every drop of water, you put it in yourself. And if you use it for washing your hands, for cooking, for doing the dish washing, you're really aware of every drop of water. And I think in a normal toilet, you flush all these in one or two days that we have in our camper went for a

week. So you get really a strong connection to the resources that you have. Also the electricity. We have solar panels on our roof. We have our notebooks for photo editing and so on. But you're a little bit more sensitive about the power consumption of your devices and to turn them off because you don't have unlimited electricity. So that's all factors that gives you a little bit more sensitivity to the resources that you need. So the takeaway is if you want to save the planet and have the most fun in your life, sell that house. You're not going to need that

Aninder: money. Live in a camper van and you're going to be living the dream life possible. Yes, really. Easier said than done, though. At least do it for

Andreas Lattner: a little time, maybe a few months, but take this time out. It's really worth it. And you don't have to do it for five years or 10 years. You will see that life needs so little, that you're just happy with a fine place in the Dolomites where you can park quietly. It's okay if you park there, you can... Go to climb from your camper van and come back afterwards, sit in front of the camper, enjoy the nature and have a cool time. This is just amazing. I think no trip, no ordinary vacation to a hotel or a beach or anything all inclusive can give you impressions like this. 100%. I

Aninder: quickly want to mention that because you said conserve your batteries on your devices. This is the perfect blueprint to stay away from social media scrolling. Like you cannot scroll that much on your phones because the batteries will drain out quicker. So you protect yourself from brain rot by living out in the nature much more than you would do in a nine to five where you come home with a 60% battery and you can keep on scrolling endlessly for half an hour, dude. Yeah, that's an interesting thought as well, but I have to tell you our batteries are

Andreas Lattner: good enough that you don't see the consumption of the mobile phone. This is no problem to charge your mobile phone. But if you mentioned this, I always have to smile. For me personally, ordering stuff at Amazon. It's very reduced when we're on the road because we have no permanent address, nowhere to ship the things. My parents were always laughing because when we, at the end of the summer, when we are planning to head to Austria again, in a few weeks, I was starting to order some things at Amazon that I thought, ah, we need this then and this. And my parents always were laughing because they knew when Amazon packages are coming to their house, they know, ah, we will come back soon. The lesson learned

is I don't need all this stuff. It's just because I can order it and it's so convenient. So I do it. And when you're on the road in the camper, when you will not do it. Yeah, sounds like a plan. And I think eventually the bottom line is that regardless of how hard it looks, it somehow turns out

Aninder: to be worth it if you want it hard enough in your life. So I quickly want to move on to the topic of eventually creating the brand. And we've spoken about how you had a visualization, which you manifested into this dream, which worked out well. And now let's talk about the commercial side of things, because capitalism is something that we all have to deal with and we have to make some sort of money. So how did you guys start living of Auschwitz media. Okay, one more time. Tell me, how do I say it? Hochzwei. HoaxY Media. Yes, yes, now you have it. HoaxY. How did HoaxY

Aninder: Media become your bread and butter? Tell us the story behind it and all the awesomeness that you created. Yes, it was increasing gradually.

Andreas Lattner: You just have to know what you like to do, pursue it, and then it will work out in the end. And when you look back, ah, this was a good way. For us, Marlies was working as a journalist in a newspaper company. And I always liked taking photos. We just had the first opportunities to work together. So Marlies had to wrote the story and I could do the photos for it. And this just increased and. We figured out that it's advantage for our business partners that, yeah, we're doing this together. So Malice, she always, or she often told me about her earlier days where she was writing stories and she had just any photographer sent with her and so he would take some photos and she would write the story but both things

don't really match together because the photographer he has looks in this direction and Marlies is interesting in this story so that we do it together and Marlies knows which photos I take and I know how the story would look that Marlies is gonna write This makes it much more connected and it gives a better story for a magazine, for example. This was our USP and we figured this out over the first jobs that we did. And yeah, this is what we started to communicate to our customers that gave us the jobs for the stories. They also saw this and it increased that we both do this

together. This leads to interesting job opportunities. Last year, there is a mountaineering program in Austria where young girls are supported. They get one year of training and then go on an expedition together. This is by an alpine club in Austria, by the Naturfreunde. And so they asked us if we could just accompany them. And Marlies is writing stories and do the social media for them. And I take the photos. So we both can climb on our own. We don't need any mountain guide to take care of us. So we can move efficiently, quickly and safely in the mountains. And this is also an advantage that we can offer for some magazines. With this, it increased and now we really like it. And another big part is

doing the live presentations of our adventures. And this just started by our first expedition to Nepal. We climbed Amadablam there and yeah, friends of us asked us if we can show some pictures on their day, they organize an evening. So we did. From this, it increased and now doing the live presentation is part of our income. We really like this because telling a story on stage in front of an audience by means of yeah, talking. Photos, videos, music, animations, dialogues between us, everything. It's such a rich toolbox that you have to present the story. It's even more interesting than only writing and doing the photos next to it on paper. We really like this way of telling a story. It's very

interesting to create the story and then to present it. You always have another, a different audience. It's always a little bit different and yeah, it's cool. Tell me honestly, when you finally finished the presentation on the stage and the whole hall is thundering with claps,

Aninder: is there a hint of a rockstar lifestyle in this kind of paragliding as well? Say yes, man. Come on. The audience wants to hear a yes. I hesitate a

Andreas Lattner: little bit. There's too much work involved. Yes, a little bit, of course. Yeah. I can do YouTube a little bit. Yeah. But mostly it's just because we did a good job in creating this presentation about this climb, this adventure, this flight. When you present it and you realize it's working off when people are enjoying, it's just satisfying if you feel that you have done a good job in creating and now open presentation. And afterwards, if you're standing together and chat a little bit with the people and have nice conversations, it's just a full package of a nice job. Package of feel good factor coming the whole circle, right from the drawing board to the eventual presentation, regardless of the

Aninder: months it takes. Let's talk a little bit about your blueprint for revenue generation, Andreas. When you start the year, when you start the project, do you guys have some visualization that you're going to need this kind of income streams to come in? How do you guys plan out your adventures where your life and everything depends on it? To be honest, sometimes I'm wondering how and why this worked out in the end. Because

Andreas Lattner: we are not planning the finances of adventure in the beginning. For next year, we want to do a new live presentation about the five years living in a camper van. And one big part of the story will be a journey to Norway, to Lofoten and We could finally fly off Stettint. It's a very nice mountain in Norway. This is a very cool part of the presentation because we have lots of cool images, videos, and yeah, interesting story to tell about this. We never planned this as part of a presentation or a job. So we just said, okay, we have some time free now without any jobs or something like

this. Now we take the time and go to Norway. This is what we like to do. If we are open for this and just go there and do the things that we like, We know by our experience that we will collect cool stories. So we just go to Norway, do our things there, climbing, paragliding, photography, just enjoying Lofoten, Norway, meeting people there. And we just have this belief that we get interesting stories there. And it was the same in this case. So we had three amazing months in Norway and we came back and we didn't immediately process the photos and make a presentation out of it. So we just had memories on our notebook and our minds. Now that we decided to make this presentation on our five years in the van, We knew we

have this cool experience in Norway and this will be a good part of it. We didn't plan anything in particular and at least no finances for this project of Norway, for example. We just know that it pays off in the end. And so that's in most stories like this. And the other way around, the stories that we make on appointment for a magazine. So where it's, ah, we need this mountain and this story, and you have to go there in this month. Ah, it makes it just always complicated with the weather and so on. And the weather is not good. You have to postpone everything. So it just

makes things complicated. We are in the lucky position that most of the cases we do the stories that we like to do. And afterwards we say we have cool photos. We have a good story. It could be of interest for this magazine or make a video out of it or use it in a presentation. So not much planning. Just do what you like. And that's why I want to come out with this thing that I like to live by here at Paragliding Atlas. The moment

Aninder: you convince yourself to dream. believe and achieve, everything else is just going to fall in place. Just get this in your head. The world will figure out a way to give you what you really want. I think so. If you free your mind, if you leave behind a few things of ordinary life, if you go to

Andreas Lattner: an office from nine to five, you won't be open in your mind for jobs like this. They won't come to you because you have no time for them. If I go to an office, I could never agree to a job accompanying young alpinists in the Alpine Club because I won't have the time for this. But if you decide to go on your way like you do with paragliding atlas and so on, If you decide to take the step to go on your way, you will have to close some doors behind you. But I think many more doors will open in front of you. And you are not aware of them before. You have to take the first step and believe, have a

little bit of trust in life. And as you said, it will fall into place. This is at least what I experienced the last 10 years. I'm yet to come across

Aninder: anyone who does not agree with this. It's so simple that all of us know what's needed, but then every one of us, me included, have this susceptibility of running back to the comfort zone and into the thing that gives you bread and butter and a roof over your head. But when you look back at it, the amount of reward this is going to bring in your life, plus in everybody else's life that you're trying to influence and add the good to the world it's all worth it at the end just give it a shot Yeah, I fully agree. And I have to admit, sometimes I'm also a little bit of

Andreas Lattner: worrying about the money that I have on my bank account because it's not the regular income that you have in the office. Sometimes this bothers me, but from my experience, I know it will be fine. Of course, there is no advantage with any disadvantage. So of course you have a little bit of insecure in your life when you choose a life like this. But you have so many rewards and it's absolutely worth. Let me tilt the table to the

Aninder: other side so that we cover all aspects of this. Let's not only talk about the good sides. When it comes to measuring the real cost of chasing passion, the motivation of a person goes up and down, resources, timelines, schedules. Life happens otherwise as well, even in nine to five. But what life happens when your comfort zone or the safety net is not as strong as you would have any other job in the society. How do you power through? What's your defense mechanism? How do you shut away the negativity and make sure that you do not lose track and stick to your goals? What always works is to go out, to hike and fly, make a short flight, go climbing. It's just, yeah, it's a little bit of distraction.

Andreas Lattner: Yeah, gives you other thoughts in mind. So this always works. And when we are talking about living like this, so to live on the road in a camper van, to live from your photos, from the stories that you do about paragliding and climbing. Of course, if you, for people outside living a nine to five job and ordinary life, They cannot understand this fully. It also was a process for us. I couldn't imagine living in a camper before. You just have to take the step and do it. I'm not mad about people not understanding our way of life because I fully understand that it's not... The life that advertisements bring to us, you need this flat TV, you need this gadget. Of course, there is no plan to live a free life in a

camper. You just have to feel it and it's just gradually evolving. So it was not that we say it from one day to the other, we quit our job, we sell our flat and so on. And from one day to the other, we moved in the camper, went and quit our jobs and so on. So it's just one step by the others. And a lot of small steps, they make a long way. And the most important thing is that on all the small steps on the way that you go, you follow your heart as good as possible. I think let me sum it up for the audiences. The bottom line is nine to five is going to have its own challenges. This is going to have its

Aninder: own parallels. When things get hard, You go for a run or go to the gym. That's the usual advice that everybody gives us. That is exactly what we are mapping in this lifestyle is to just go for a flight. You're going to live life with a certain set of emotions, no matter what way you choose. Eventually, you can answer for yourself which way you can choose. Where further down the lane, you can look back and be like, oh my God, I'm so happy I chose this way, not the other way. Yes, after 10 years, I can say I'm very happy that I choose this way. Man, that's why you're on

paragliding after this. And let's hope everybody else listening to this can be inspired. And we get more guests and more people to inspire the audience. So as I listened to many podcasts of yours during the renovation of our house, congratulations to the selection of guests. I

Andreas Lattner: don't know how you came across me, but it's an honor to be there. Thank you for your kind words, Andreas, just because you are putting out your

Aninder: awesomeness to the world. And I was looking for people like you who do that. And I want to amplify the vibes. Here we are doing our part. Super glad to team up for this one. But Andreas, tell me a little bit about brand sponsorships. Branding is mad expensive. When I moved from India to Norway, I was like, ah, just breathing the Norwegian air is costing me money. Existing in Europe is like sucking money out of you, like anything. So... Finding meaningful deals, making sure your investments are not just running down the drain. How do you eventually team up with paragliding brands? What are the processes involved? What do they expect from you? What do you guys get on board if you can just throw

Aninder: some light on it? I'm pretty sure a lot of people in our audience have been wanting to know that. Mm-hmm. Yes, I'm always surprised how expensive

Andreas Lattner: paragliding became. When I look at the prices of the wings, it's really increased since, I think it was since Corona, since all the delivery shortages and so on, it really increased a lot. I would like to connect your question to our living in the camper. We just had one wing left. Each of us had two air-designed Susis in our camper van for a long time. It's just perfect for us. No need for a second or even a third wing. We just have the Susis. Living in the camper van is the first step that you just only have what you really need. Before we were living in the camp, I had two

wings. I had an acro wing as well because I thought, ah, maybe I would like to get a little bit into acro flying as well. But I flew this wing maybe once a month. So no need to have this wing. And I didn't have real acro ambitions. At least I wouldn't take the time for it. So living in a camper is a good distillation of what you really need. You don't need three wings, just one. This is a very good when it comes to a cooperation with companies. My experience is a little bit the same than the overall lifestyle. Of course, we We really are happy about the cooperation with

some companies because it makes life easier for us as we don't have the fixed income that you would have in a good paid office job. Yeah, I would not afford a new paraglider each year. When you're working together with a company, it helps you. Although I have to add, we flew our Susies, the Susie 3, for three years and they were still in good conditions and we could... updated from air design to the Suzy 4. Otherwise I would have continued flying with the Suzy 3, still a good wing. So the cooperation makes life easier for us. Of course, it's just a part of our lifestyle, our work, our income as well. To choose the companies that you would like to work with, you have to figure out which company really fits to you and

yeah, what where can you give the most benefit to a company and in our case this was air design from the beginning they always had light wings in fly they always had the hike and fly pilots in mind and as we met the guys from air design martin and stefan we were on the same wave so we had an easy conversation we wrote to them and said can you sponsor wings for us something like this it was just We told them what we are doing. We asked a little bit about the wings, just to find out if we match together. This took a while. Also for other brands in mountaineering, like Ortovox, we

are for, I don't know, six or seven years together with them. And it was not just from one day to the other. It was a progress of a few months, maybe a year. We were in connection. And after that, we said, let's work together on this small project and see what comes out. And so my suggestion to this is to start, first of all, to really see which companies could benefit from your work and you could benefit from them, of course. And the second step, just to take it slowly and maybe start with a small project. Maybe you have a cool project in mind. Maybe some

crossing the Alps by paraglider and you ask for a little bit of help from a company. If this works well, you invest a little bit and have a good outcome. Then you take the next step. For all the companies we are working with for years now, it was just gradually evolving. Now we are friends with them. Just two days ago, we have been to Munich to visit the Ortovox people for some project. When we travel to the West, we make a stop at Air Design as they are in Tyrol. For us, it doesn't feel like a job or a commercial cooperation. It's more like a friendship. And of

course, I don't ask AirDesign about the new wing every year because I'm just fine with the wing we have. But if we have a special project a few years ago, when we first traveled to Pagnen and tried to climb Gasserbrum 2, We said, ah, we would like to take the paraglider with us. Maybe we can fly down from some point high up. And yeah, we just were asking them what they would suggest, the Susi or the UFO. And so we had a good conversation with Susi. Martin and Stefan, and they gave us good information. We could take a good decision. In the end, they gave us a

wing for this try. Unfortunately, the weather was too bad, so we had no chance to fly. When you have a good project in mind, you have a specific question, I think the companies will be happy to help you in most cases. You don't have to dream too big. It should be okay. Then just take some time, work together, and it will be cool. I think I'd like to take this opportunity and let our audiences know that Air Design is quite an

Aninder: exciting brand. If you haven't heard our episode yet, we have a beautiful in-depth episode with Stefan Steigler on the Paragliding Atlas podcast. Just scroll through the index and you will find all the awesomeness that goes behind this amazing brand that comes out of South Tyrol. Yes, yes. I heard the episode with Stefan. A cool one, yeah. He's a really funny guy, little bit crazy as well with his Ironman stuff, but

Andreas Lattner: just a genius in designing wings. Yeah, I was like, that's going to be super cool that a designer is competing in Excel and performing at the

Aninder: highest level and knowing everything that goes behind it. I really hope he smashes the Ironman that he was talking about. But before I move on, Andreas, the type of support varies brand to brand, person to person, project to project. Is getting free wings only for the top elite or can people who have big dreams and the will also look at getting a whole wing sponsored? What's your take on that? So the amount of sponsoring that

Andreas Lattner: you get from a company... In my experience, it's mostly connected with the story that you can give them in return. You don't have to be the best cross-country pilot, do the longest flight and so on. You have to make the best story for them. When they give you good conditions for a wing or even a wing for free, they of course they expect some kind of marketing value for them of course this is the deal you are fully convinced about the company about the wing and you just love it and fly it and yeah do at the end marketing for this wing in a very honest way but We see this so often in

the topic of climbing. There are the top climbers in the world and they climb the high grades in difficulty in rock climbing. They do presentations as well and they talk about the hardest climb in the audience when you're not in this top league of climbing. You cannot understand the difference between difficulty 10 and 11. It's just everything looks like a vertical wall with no structure. So... It's effort. It makes no sense to explain to an audience the difference between 10 and 11 in climbing. It's the same. It's just unbelievable for them. And so it's with flying. In a good presentation, in a good marketing, in a good story, you don't have to talk about the last 10% in

performance, in precision, and so on. How you squeezed out the last maybe 20 kilometers. This is just for the insiders, for the few people who are aware of this, who can understand this. The wider audience, they just want to hear a good story. And it's not about the highest performance. And this is the same for us. We are not professional athletes. We are not in the highest difficulties. We do not fly cross country for 200 kilometers. And we don't do the hardest hike in flies and the most dangerous takeoffs. No, because it's not that interesting for our audience. For audience, the whole story must be a good one. And you don't have to be the best pilot for this. You have to tell a good story. And

I think this is the key factor about the good cooperation that we have with our companies. And I think it's maybe also an advice for people who want to get into this. You don't have to just sell your competition results. You have to just sell a good story of you. Maybe you have a cool project starting here because you had the idea for so long and you cross with paraglider from this country to another. Just the story must be cool and interesting. And I think this is, yeah, it's often mistakenly seen as you have to be the top pilot. Only then you get sponsored. No, it's

about the good story. You have to touch people's heart, get their interest, and this is with a good story. You can even be a beginner pilot, but if you have a good story, your story is, I begin paragliding because of this. It's way better than you have 10 points more in a competition for the story you might tell in a magazine or a presentation. 100%. And I think this makes so much sense because last episode with Benjamin

Aninder: Kellett, who also happens to be the most followed Instagram cross-country pilot in the sport, he says he emphasizes on the exact same thing. It's like you don't have to go out and have millions of likes or millions of views on your reels. All you have to do is create mutual value for yourself and for the brand and be a good storyteller. The bottom line is that as long as you're able to transfer your energies to your audiences and put a smile on their faces, the brands are more than happy to come along and help you do it. Yeah, I really enjoyed listening

Andreas Lattner: to this episode as well, because I had the feeling that he's also taking it not too serious and just do what he likes. And so it reminded me a little bit of how I approach my videos, of course, in a way, lower quality level than he does. But I think the approach could be a little bit the same. Now,

Aninder: glad you found it useful. And I really hope some of the audience members are also in the same boat because subconsciously, you know, we see pilots like Hunter and Hamard or Antion Girard or Tom or Paul or like all of these Red Bull guys who go out there with all these drones and all the fancy gears and smashing distances in places where it's seemingly impossible to even exist, not just for human life, but even for animal life. And we are like, all right, that is one way of living out your dream. But then there are people like you and Benjamin who are like, hey, you don't have to go out and recreate the wheel. You just have to go out and have fun. And there are people willing to make the most out of it as long as

there's a will. Yeah, as you mentioned, Antoine Girard, I really like what he's doing, although it's very dangerous stuff. If you know the

Andreas Lattner: areas where he takes off and lands on 7,000 meters or almost 7,000 meters, like on Spantik, it's just crazy dangerous, I think. But I think he's just loving what he does and push the limits with this. And I really like what he does. And I always say, It's maybe just a matter of time until somebody will fly into Karakorum, maybe to Broad Peak, land just below the summit, climb an 8,000 meter peak and fly back home in the same day. I think we will see this. And Antoine did the same on Spantik. And this is just amazing. It's the combination of climbing and paragliding what opens up new possibilities. One day you could do an 8,000 meter peaks by paragliding in one day. Wow, this would be just awesome. 20 questions,

Aninder: 20 thoughts are coming to my mind, but I'm just going to stick to one because you're talking about Antoine, the pioneering legend of 8,000ers. Oh my God. I loved him. We had him on the show when I was just starting out and he was super kind. He was like, yeah, man, I'm going to come out on your show and share all my awesomeness with your audiences. When it comes to talking about dangerous, dangers, or while choosing dangers, His lifestyle is scary, exciting, mesmerizing for a lot of us paragliders. But take that same point of view and put it to a layman looking at what we are doing. That layman who's not in paragliding can have the exact same perception for whatever we guys are doing in a normal

top to bottom. I remember Antoine spoke about it on the show as well. For any of our listeners who's curious, just scroll down to one of the beginner episodes. You'll see Antoine sharing all his wisdom. He went out and climbed K2 all by himself when he was 17. Can you believe it? zero support solo climb top to bottom he didn't fly down he was not into paragliding and that to me is dangerous and i was like anton what were you thinking i was like no just another day in my life bro that's like nothing out of my comfort zone yeah so the pure essence of it i was like are you

Aninder: kidding me how did you become like that and how can others be there as well And I don't know if you are aware about the story, but it was a Norwegian

Andreas Lattner: mountain climber. It was maybe in the 90s. He climbed Mount Everest, but he went to Nepal with his bike, bicycle, drove all the way from Norway to Nepal with all his climbing equipment, climbed Mount Everest, went back down and cycled the whole back to Norway. Unfortunately, he is not so well known, but this is just a story that is amazing. I don't remember the name at the moment, but you know about the story? I've definitely

Aninder: come across that card while scrolling on social media, and it rings a bell. It said Swedish. There was a Swedish guy, but I don't know, could have been Norwegian. One of the Scandinavians who was just too tired of cold and dark and wanted to escape. If you allow me, Andreas, we've been talking about storytelling for quite some time. Storytelling is an art, and any art form gets better the more you create it. There's no rocket science behind it. How do you make the magic in your storytelling? What are the raw materials? What are the hardware? How does the scripting look like? Just tell our audiences a little bit about your thought process behind this. So this is again, very little

Andreas Lattner: planning. So almost never a script for it. And we do the tour, the flights, the climb. In the beginning, I have a feeling if it's worth taking more camera equipment with me because it might be good records. Good shots. Sometimes I just take my small camera because I think, no, I'm not in the mood or I don't expect good images. A little bit of thinking in the beginning, but we almost never have a script. We do our climb, our flight. Afterwards, I go through the footage that I have and maybe an idea pops up. If I make a small video out of it or it has potential for a

longer video. And maybe this takes a few times. So maybe at the first going through the footage, I have no idea. I say, okay, it's nice, but no idea what to do with it. So maybe I just leave it and see it again a week later or even half a year later. And then I have the idea and say, oh, now I have the time to do a longer video out of it. I always enjoy this process. So I have some footage and just to see what you can make out of it. This is the way that we handle it in most cases. For me, it would be a little bit of boring maybe if I have an exact plan what I shoot and I have all the footage

that I need and then I just combine it. I think it would be a little bit of boring for me. So playing with what we have. is a bit more exciting because it opens up, yeah, new possibilities. Maybe it's harder to get the story in the video because you say, I don't have the footage of the approach, but I have to tell it. Then you have to think about different ways to tell this element, or maybe it's a whole different story. Going out, shooting photos and videos and afterwards like juggling with this and make a good story out of it is for me a very exciting part of this also

when we are doing live presentations about our climbs it's more or less the same so we do the climbing and maybe one or two years later we have the idea for a live presentation we see ah we did this climb could be a cool topic in the presentation and we did this and so you have to juggle with all the the photos and videos that we have and we do a good presentation out of it. For the videos or for the photos, Whenever I have the mood, then I take a little bit bigger camera, my Sony Alpha 7 III for taking photos, also videos sometimes. The lenses I choose depending on the light

conditions or let's say if I expect much landscape, then I take the wide angle. If it's more like a detail story, of course, a more tele lens to get a little bit closer. Of course, we have GoPros. Marlies has one and I have one. So we have the possibility to take video Marlies on her own and I for myself. With two GoPros, I also have the chance to put one on my foot to record me in flight or to put one into the wing. So I have different perspectives. We both have small cameras like a Canon G7X Mark II. These are compact cameras, but they shoot in RAW. And very good video when I'm

not in the mood of carrying the Sony. I take the small one. A few months ago, I tried the 360 camera because...

When I took GoPro videos of paragliding, I always had the problem that, yeah, I thought this would be a good angle and hassle with all the camera equipment, do the flight. And in the end you see the footage and you say, okay, but just half of it you can use because you took the wrong angle and so on. So I said, maybe a 360 camera could help me. And so I'm just trying to figure out how to use this in the best way.

Aninder: 360s are so addictive with post-processing because they make your life easier. You're never going to go back to GoPro the moment you switch. So just letting you know, this is what happened with me. I got a 360 and my GoPros are just kicked. For me right at the moment, it's a little bit of

Andreas Lattner: more hurry and more hustle in the post-production because I'm not into editing 360 videos with defining the camera angle. I'm not so used to it yet, but it's a lot of fun. One perfect advantage is you can make a landscape and portrait format from the same footage. Nowadays, if you want to take the video for YouTube, you have landscape and for Instagram Reels, it's better to have a portrait. You just have one footage and decide afterwards. It's a very big advantage. Yes. And I have a little drone, the Mavic Mini 2. And when I'm in the mood of carrying camera equipment, I also take this one with me. Yeah. Nice. I have to tell it to the audiences. You make it sound super simple. The way you're saying

Aninder: that you just go out with the flow and create and somehow it turns out beautiful. I was speaking to a video editor that I'm planning to work with because we are also planning to come out with videos on paragliding atlas. And somehow, Jan-Baptiste Chandelier, I hope I'm saying his name correctly. Man, the cinematic brilliance that guy brings to our screen out of flight. Oh my God. How does he do it? I know he has a masterclass, which is all in French. And he does divulge few details. What would it take to do that? And I sent that video to my editor. And I was like, what do I have to do? He's like, bro, forget it. You don't have the money. You don't have the team. You don't have the whole

Aninder: infrastructure. But what I'm trying to say is that sometimes it takes one hour for a 10-second shot. to be taken at that quality. There are easier ways to do it. And then there are endless ways to make it better, which is you have to draw the line that where do I stop? As you mentioned

Andreas Lattner: earlier, climbing is maybe a little bit more popular right now. And paragliding is not. If you mention Jean-Baptiste with his videos, this is the whole new world that he opened. And I also really enjoyed watching the videos from him and compared to climbing. I cannot think about any video in climbing like this, just to have this happiness in filming perspectives and just the ideas that he makes. So I can't think of a creative video like this in the climbing context. So this is what paragliding has in advantage here. with a few guys like this. So if there

Aninder: are people out there who have been thinking about when to get started, now is the time. Pull up your socks and go out because the world is responding to anyone who's trying. Simple as that. And I think I would like to add here as well, just as with sponsorship and being an extreme

Andreas Lattner: athlete or something, you don't need the best equipment to shoot a good story. All the mobile phones are usually good enough. If you focus on a few things, the quality is fully okay to make a good story, a good video. Many of the videos in our presentation about climbing Manaslu in Himalaya, I took with my iPhone. And I'm always surprised when I'm on stage and I look at the videos in five by eight meters. I think, hey, this was shot by an iPhone and it's fully okay. It depends on the story to tell with it. And even it could be beneficial if the quality is not that good

because it makes it more honest. It fits better to your story. If you have a high quality image and footage, maybe it doesn't connect good with the story that you tell about. Having a rough time and getting good shots is meh. There's something. Andreas, once you get into this game, because

Aninder: it's so addictive and rewarding and you start winning at life as you finally plan to, Does your flying only revolve around projects or do you still find time that there are days that today it's just me and my wing and nobody else either in my head or physically? Yes, I still have flights

Andreas Lattner: like this. This is also one part that we enjoy here with the house that we bought here. We are in the area that we lived before, so we came back more or less. And of course, we know all the mountains here, the takeoffs. And we have one very nice little mountain. It's a good takeoff. You can take off in three directions. It's from the door. It's maybe two hours of walk and I can fly almost until back to my house door. This is still something that we really enjoy if we just take two hours or two and a half hours of time out and walk up there. Even if we walked up this way for maybe 500

times an hour, it's never getting boring because we just like the landscape, the view, the difference in spring, in summer, looking at the trees and then just sitting at the takeoff. a few minutes and enjoying the landscape of our hometown here. Yeah, we still enjoy this. Yeah. And I don't have to take a camera with me on that. Andreas, $8,000, man. This is a magic number in mountaineering. Paragliding is catching

Aninder: up very quick. What does it take to, first of all, dream about it, and secondly, make it happen?

Andreas Lattner: Uh...

You really need a dream because it costs a lot. It's a lot of risk involved. And if you're not completely passionate about this, I think you want to do it. It's just too much risk. But since I dreamed of this, it was just logical that I would like to try this on my own one time. So you need really a good dream about this. Did you really do it? I think for me personally, this was the most important thing. Just out of curiosity,

Aninder: Andreas, to tell our listeners a little bit about how does life look like at the takeoff of a 8000er? What are the emotions? What are the conditions? How is the takeoff run? How does the wind come up? So I cannot tell you about the takeoff on 8000 meter. My highest takeoff was in

Andreas Lattner: Pakistan at Gondwara Holadis was about 6000 meters. Hmm. On some days, even on 8,000 meters, you would have little wind. So the chances to take off, you have them, but you have to be at the right place at the right time. As the guys on K2 were, this was just amazing. And I think it was four of them flying down. So the chance is there. From my flight, from the Gondogorula pass, during the trekking back in the Karakorum, you cross this pass. It's about 6,000 meters, I think.

It was a funny story because we were going back and some porters were going with us. Each day they told us, it's about five hours walk today. And for us, it was always like seven hours because they were just so fast and we were so exhausted. And then there was this one day where we should cross this pass and they said, ah, we have to wake up very early. It's a long day up there. We start at maybe 2 AM. And so we are at the pass at sunrise. We had no problem. So we were hiking up there in the morning and it was feeling good. And I thought, ah, I think we are reaching the top of

the pass, but it's still far away from sunrise. So we were two hours before sunrise on the pass. It was very little wind, a perfect takeoff. I said, okay, we're just too early, but I would like to wait here until it gets light and I can fly down. We were waiting there for two hours. Unfortunately, Marlies got too cold and she decided that she don't want to take all the hassle with taking out the wing in the cold and then packing it again. So she took the normal way down. It just takes two hours walking down. So it's not about saving you much time of the hike. It's

just about doing this flight. I was shivering cold up there, but then sun came up and it was light enough so that I could take off. And it was very flat. I was really a little bit surprised on how fast you have to run until the wing carries your weight. So this was a little bit unexpected. But in the end, I was flying, just looking back and seeing Broad Peak, K2, and in front of me, Lila Peak. It was just amazing. So it was fully worth waiting for two hours in the cold night until sunlight came. I can imagine. Bragging rights for life. Yeah.

Aninder: Just out of curiosity, you must be using glacier shoes, right? Like the ones which aren't flexible and they have to have some sort of crampons or some sort of grips. Yes. How do you run fast in those shoes, man? Because those are super hard. I never had the need to take off with the crampons

Andreas Lattner: because wherever we took off on glaciers, we choose a takeoff where we could take off the crampons before. If I would take off with crampons, I would try to take them off during flight or at least when you're close to the landing. Is it even possible to run fast with that kind of

Aninder: mountaineering equipment on you? Like those kind of shoes don't really allow that kind of flexibility of the foot to run fast. That's where the curiosity was. Yes, it's okay for taking off with the paraglider. It's fully sufficient. Of course, you cannot run this with your running

Andreas Lattner: shoes. But usually on the mountain, if you take a steep takeoff, no need to run that fast. So you will take off anyway. Scary and exciting and

Aninder: exhilarating at the same time. But I think on that note, Andreas, we have pretty much covered everything that we planned for, except for the last and the most beautiful part of the show. That is, if you can share with our audiences one magical moment that has stuck with you from all these years of Chasing Adventures and why. There are a few moments that I remember when you ask about like this. Most of them are in connection

Andreas Lattner: with paragliding, I really have to say. So it was climbing up a mountain, flying down. There are really a few moments that come to my mind. The one I would mention here is in Norway, the line being stagnant. I mentioned it a little earlier. We, this is a very beautiful mountain near the Lofoten in north of Norway. It's 1400 meter right out of the fjord. And it's just a very sharp peak, but at the top you have the chance to take off. We had a little snow field, so it was really easy to take off, but it's a takeoff over a cliff. We took off there in midnight sun and I think it was June. The

story behind it was when we first visited Nepal and climbed Amadablam, we were looking about some mountains, some ideas. And when you look up Amadablam, it's a very beautiful mountain, very famous mountain. You get across lists about the most beautiful mountains in the world. In these lists, we found the Statent in Norway as well. So we had this image in our head and also printed out on our toilet. It was on the wall. Since 2015. Always as a little dream in our heads. When we finally took the time to visit Norway, we traveled in Norway for three months. Then we said, oh, there is Stettent. You remember this image? This is near Lofoten and is a cool mountain for climbing. By coincidence, we found a video from

one guy taking up from the top. So we said, oh, maybe we could climb up and fly down. As the weather in Norway, especially at the coastal areas is not that good for us pilots. It's more like a lottery if you get all the things. So good weather, good climbing conditions and so on. We had this image in our heads since 2015 and then 2020, I think. It was time. So we climbed up there. It was an amazing climb. When we reached the top at 8 p.m., it was a little bit too windy, but we knew it's midnight sun, we can wait. Around 11 p.m., the wind calmed down. Everything was just red and orange. By the midnight sun, shortly before

midnight, we took off from the top of Mount Stettin. This is just an unforgettable experience. I feel you, man. Chasing golden apple from

Aninder: above is quite mystical. I'm not going to deny that. A chasing golden hour with the Norwegian backdrop. I'll let people imagine that themselves. It's quite out of the world. I think on that note, Andreas, before we wrap up, there was a super cool thing you had on your website, and that was the calendar. Tell us a little bit about the 2025 calendar that is coming with it. What is the awesomeness that you're planning to bring to the audiences who follow you? It started small. We were making a calendar for our friends and families and more and more people were

Andreas Lattner: asking each year to go through my Lightroom photo archive and look for the best shots. make a calendar out of it. I'm very happy that we have a lot of regular customers who buy this calendar every year. Every year, some new customers. For me, it's a nice way to wrap up my year and go through all the photos and have some memories. Nothing too fancy. Just making a calendar. Some people have fun with it. For me, it's fun as well. Just

Aninder: another guy chasing his dreams. How cool is that? And I still have some left. I'm happy to ship them within Europe. Also abroad, he just dropped

Andreas Lattner: me an email. There you go, people. Just log on to his and Marilla's website. Both of them are creating absolute magic that you would

Aninder: definitely want to have in your life. The link to which you'll find in the show notes. Would you like to have some closing thoughts, Andreas, before we wrap up for the day? I think we covered a lot of this. I really enjoyed talking to you, listening to all the episodes before. Thanks

Andreas Lattner: for your patience and reaching out to me during the renovation of our house. But at least I had a lot of episodes that I was listening to during the work. So it was cool. And yeah, an honor to be here. Feeling is mutual, man. Glad we can create value for each other and in the end create value

Aninder: for the whole paragliding community. On that note, Andreas, massive thanks. Keep rocking, keep flying. Your passion is infectious and cannot wait to have you back on the show with new stories. Thank you, Anindya. Take care.