Legacy and Lifetimes of Gin Seok Song: 5 Decades of Pioneering the Art of Free Flight

Gin Seok Song: The Ozone photon was coming and then they started to win every competition. And I said, OK, we have to do something. So this is how the GTO3 was born. How's your relationship with Ozone, guys?

Gin Seok Song: I think it's still, there's a chance to develop more performance. But in the same time, the key of success today, Paraglider, is... Please tell us about Boom 13. Without letting out any secrets.

Aninder: What is up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Panic Lightning Athletes Podcast. I'm your host Anindya Singh and as usual we are coming to you deferred live but exclusive from the Macedonian town of Krasavo, the racing capital of the world. And today I have another very special guest joining us this time around. A lot of you know him, a lot of you have followed his passion for quite a long time, and most importantly, a lot of you have experienced the art of flight and all the joy that comes with it because of this person. I'm talking about none other than the man himself, the force behind Jinn paragliders, Mr. Jinn. Hello, nice to see you. This is such a big honor. Thank you so much for coming. Oh, my

Gin Seok Song: pleasure. Mr. Jim, you happen to be one of the very few founders of a brand who is still flying a paraglider, and not just flying it, who is also

Aninder: racing his own creations at the very top level. I have a question, sir. How do you feel? Oh, yeah. I've been flying since 1977, so I'm quite old.

Gin Seok Song: But...

Flying is like my life. So it doesn't really see the differences from the beginning to today. For me, the flying is just the joy of life and things like this. So I still fly almost every day. Usually I'm testing the wings with my test pilot. And I design the wings and I fly, I feel it change. So actually the flying is my daily job. So when I test the wings, we have test also full speed performance. So we are, I'm the full speed is, I don't need a training period. I'm almost every single days we do the comparison, full speed, whatever. That's why I still can compete in the

competition with the World Cup young boys. So I don't need to win. But it's a pleasure to fly with this. And then also in the same time, I also compare my new wings to see in the real competition. This is how I fly in the steel competition now. Mr. Jin, there's a saying called that there

Aninder: are no old and bold pilots. But are you challenging that saying since a long time? Because I see you pushing full bar, being the lead guy or the first transition. So is this an old and bold pilot that we are looking at?

Gin Seok Song: Just, it's like a habit. When you fly long time in the competition, it's usually you push the bar and then just do it. So I don't see why I don't have to do. No, I love it. I love it that you still have the passion and all the courage. Do you have any idea about the amount of hours that you might

Aninder: have accumulated? Just a rough number. Are you at 10,000 plus or less? What do you mean? Total? Indeed. Yeah. Ever since you first picked up a glider. I don't know. I never count my hours flying. But I've been flying since hang gliding. So I do a lot of hang gliding competition too. So

Gin Seok Song: after I changed paragliding and paragliding competition, And paragliding is like my daily job, testing. Whenever the weather is good, then we are on the hills to fly, testing, top landing, changing. So usually per day, in a good day, I am like four or five hours in the air. So it's a lot. Yeah. The reason why I ask this is because there's a theory which says if you do something for 10,000 hours, you become natural at

Aninder: it. So it seems that you and your team are close to anybody who flies for six, five, six decades. I think that is the amount of time. If you say 70s, you have been flying and now we're in 20, half of the second decade of this millennia, then probably it's almost like five, 55 or 60 years that you have been in the game. Yeah, almost 50 years since 77, so we are in 25, so it's almost 48 years, 47 years, yeah.

Gin Seok Song: I think I'm the only one in my place in Korea. All my flying, hang gliding friends, they stopped flying since long time ago. But I think I'm the only one who still fly today. It's such a big inspiration that there is somebody having the passion, the courage, the time, money, and the

Aninder: energy. And most importantly, stayed safe all throughout. I think that itself is a podium or a medal in itself. Like staying safe to practice it. Yeah, yeah. Could you tell us a little bit about origins of flying in South Korea? How was it? What was the history of free flying in your country when you got into it? When I began hang gliding, it was very beginning of hang glider. So this hang glider was never able to do any

Gin Seok Song: cross-country flying. You take off landing with the Rogallo. I don't know if you know that. Just very basic hang glider and beginning of hang glider. You just take off and go land in one minute. But that was big pleasure. And then when paragliding start, There's not many place to fly in Korea because all the mountains was no road and things like this. But we found a new place and we speak with the local government and put the new road and kind of thing. So I did a lot of open the flying site to the city hall or local government. And then also in the very beginning of

paragliding, I was young and I had a strong passion. So I had a big school. Yeah. So I think that was, I don't know how this energy came from, but I do 24 hours work almost, and then teaching the peoples and like, they have no idea, so. I have a lot of experience from hang gliding, so I know what you have to do in the air. So when paragliding was begun, I knew the air, I knew how to thermaling, but by then, actually the paraglider was almost similar to parachute, so it was never possible to any cross-country flying. So then slowly the paraglider developed and then start to make a

distance flying kind of thing. So why I was fully concentrated paragliding in Korea was in Korea there's not many place to land. There's lots of power lines. Korea is a small, tiny country. Actually, I like Korea. paraglider where you can land anywhere. You don't need a lot of big space to land like hang gliding. So that's why I was really pushing the paragliding sports in Korea. So now the level of Korean pilots are really good. Some of them is like world-class pilot. So I'm happy to see today the young guys doing good in the world clubs and international competition. So I'm quite happy. And I did a quite big job in Korea. That's so nice to hear that you basically mentored the community in a way

Aninder: which is reaping the benefits.

Aninder: Tell us a little bit about the origins of your brand. When did the idea from a pilot to a brand owner come into your life? Actually, I was working

Gin Seok Song: for some other brand called Edel. And then Edel was a big company, but they didn't have a designer. So they just, anyhow, they made something. And so then I joined and I made this Edel number one in the world. So this Edel was very big. and huge communities and World Cups. So many people fly air gliders and then somehow in 1997, somehow it was time to leave. So I didn't want to start my company. I want to, actually I wanted to take a break. But somehow, somebody's asking me to have competition wings. I had the time, so I drew the gliders. And then I asked some small factory to

stitch and then send it to Japan. And this Japanese guy went to the World Cup with this wing. And they start to go on the podium. It was, for Europeans, in the World Cup, it was a big shock because none of the Asians was on the podium ever. But with the strange win, they start to go on the podium. And it was a big shock in the World Cups. What the hell is this? Who's this newcomer with all the new technologies? So then I told them, don't say this is designed by Jin. Just name it Boomerang. So this Boomerang was going, three of them, Japanese guys, start to go World Cup

and then they start to win all in top three. Wow. So then big pilot like Hans Bollinger, Jimmy Parker, by the time they were the top pilot, the world champion, and all these kind of guys are calling. They finally, they knew that it was from Jin. And then they call me, say, I come to Korea tomorrow. Okay. And then we discuss and okay, okay. Then I had to build a small company called Gene Gliders. And then I didn't have other models, only boomerangs. So you started with triple Cs. Yes. So it was funny. Then boomerang was winning. It was booming across. Yes. This is how the

Gene Glider was born. That's so interesting. Okay, how did, like, was Ozone not existing at that time? Or what was your biggest competition to

Aninder: the boomerang at that time? The Ozone was starting the nearly same time as Jingle Riders, because the Robbie Whittle, who was one of my test

Gin Seok Song: pilot before, and Robbie Whittle is a world champion of hang gliding and world champion of paragliding, and he was working for me as test pilot. But then he start Ozone and I start Jingle Adders. And Ozone was not my competitors. By then, the competitors was like Advanced and Nova. Who else? Yeah. There were... Swing was not too much. So... The advance was good. They have a good team. So they had a nice wing for the competitions. And we have a good model, too. So, yeah, it's nearly the same time Ozone started. Until 2009, Ozone was okay. There's a brand. But none of them was winning any competition. But 2009, in the Super Final World Cup in Italy, Poggio Bostone, We had a full team, boomerang team. And then the

Gin Seok Song: Ozone came with a two-liner. Ah, right. Charles Kazoo and Russell Wooden coming, and then they win fourth, second. And from third to 11th was boomerangs. I was... Big news. Then, 2010, you see everywhere ozone. One day to next days, you see. It was a big evolution. So since then ozone take the top and they are still there. So basically the two-liner tech is what propelled the ozone to the podiums. Yes. Mr. Jin, I have a

Aninder: question when it comes to designing. What is the difference which makes one brand better than the others? Because let's say when you came out with Boomerang in the beginning, The other brands also were designing really good gliders, which were being trusted all across the world. And today, when Ozone is designing two-liners which are winning, the other brands are also designing two-liners that are winning. But at that time, boomerang technology was dominating, and now ENZO technology is dominating. So what is it that makes a glider better than the other brand? According to a designer's perspective. I think the success of Boomerang was not only performance, but also safe, easy to fly. That was

Gin Seok Song: the key. So there was some glider could maybe have more performance, but in what I say is overall performance. Means when the glider is easy to handle, then you perform better. The success of the ANGEL 3 also in the beginning was not. But today, they really make the wing more easy, safe, stable in full bar, that kind of thing. So people have confidence. The pilots are not stupid. They know if I take this wing, It's easy. So today the whole community, not like it was 20 years ago, today's Facebook, Instagram is for everywhere. Information spreads very fast, yeah. I think the key of success is not only performance, but also success. how easy to handle in full speed during the race. If you get collapsed, what

happens? That's very important. So I think that many other brands don't even attempt to design these two-liner competition wings. Actually, the market Looks big to like a composition model, but we don't really make money out of the composition wings. You sell A, B, C gliders are really the main business. Probably they make good money from industry because whole world, there's so many industry here. I think when it

Aninder: comes to R&D, researching and developing, JIN has been at the forefront of R&D for quite a long time. So what was your idea when you set up the JIN company? How did you want to do the research and the development in your company? Did you hire some people or did you just focus everything within you or did you look for support? What was the idea behind? In the beginning... Honestly, none of the designers had the experience like

Gin Seok Song: Eugene. All the brands, when I look at the designers, they are starting with paragliding. And I was flying from hang gliding, actually, so I have more experience. understanding about flying and skills and so when I design and testing wings and I know what the air is doing and turbulence and whatever so that was the big difference from the beginning when I designed some wing and finished product then my wing was selling better than the others because it flies better they It glides better, whatever. So that was my success in the beginning. And then we really had a huge team. Because when you have so many competition pilots, you are getting so much feedback. Then after, you can

understand what to design. So this was the big community, and this big community was helping me to design the wings better. Same like now, angel, have so many pilot fly angels, and they have entire informations coming to them, and they know what to change. So this was same thing happened in Jin before. So then today, my experience was good, but then Since 10 years ago, what's important is it's not only experience. The real research was actually needed. So start to work with the R&D, with the university, research. So we start, since last 10 years ago, we start to develop the paragliders. But any university, they are good at airplanes, but they didn't understand paragliders. None of them was

able to help. But I found one good one, and this guy was a student, but then he become a professor, and then he start to help me. to develop the paragliding wings. So today we have a big support by the government. So last time when we designed Wave Leading Edge, we get $1 million support by the government to work with this university. So we spent $1 million to finish the formula of this Wave Leading Edge. That is unbelievable.

Aninder: You're so telling me that there was administration ready to spend a million dollars on our sport. This is Korean government was helping the

Gin Seok Song: small company like Gingliders and then collaboration with the university. So this lab was really interesting to work together because they start to understand the slow wings like paragliders. So this is how the Waverly DH was born. And today we have an even bigger amount of the budget, $2 million for four years. So we are now studying about the wing shapes, wing tips, whatever. This is exciting. It will come soon. But you need the money. What I want to say is that you really need to calculate and test and things like this. I don't really use the CFD. CFD result is computing. You can use it as a... CFD is a computing program. Okay, fluid dynamics. Yes, yes. Software. Yes, software.

Then you can take it as a reference. But we do more in the wind tunnel test. The wind tunnel test is actually you get the real, more practical data. So I'm quite happy that we are working with this lab. That's nice. I think, are you the only brand who has wind tunnel accessibility?

Aninder: Because I have never seen any other brand. I heard some companies have small wind tunnels in the company, but... We are working with the

Gin Seok Song: university who has the wind tunnels, so it's interesting to see the wind tunnel test result. It's very practical. Mr. Jin, it inspires me how you

Aninder: challenge the status quo time to time, be it with the original Boomerang back in the day or be it with GTO3. Now, GTO3 is a wing that I'm very curious about because it seems to be the racehorse of Jin brand right now. Coming up, all the SRS comps, the pilots are trusting us, the community is happy with it. The full bar performance is pretty amazing, but I believe you developed Boomerang earlier than GTO3. Could you please tell us a little bit about the technology that this two-liner ENC has, and how is it becoming the status quo of the SRS and two-liner series? We learn a lot

Gin Seok Song: from the two-liner competition wings and bring it down to the C-class. Because in the beginning, the two-liner was, the image of two-liner was dangerous, more difficult, and things like that. But then when this knowledge, two-liner, I mean, for us, also we made a lot of mistakes, for sure, try and errors. And then we learn more and more. So then today we can, like boomerang 12, for example, super easy, nice handling, safe. After huge collapse, the glider never rotates. There's no big energy to turn or whatever. So it's safe wings. So we learn. And because we did a lot of experience and we have this wave leading edge and whatever. So then after we really want to, when the C class accepted by EN with the folding

lines, Then we started to develop the two-liner sea gliders because we know two-liner is easy to fly and also you can really enjoy the speed, cross-country flying. But it took some time to make. When I designed the Bonanza 3 two-liner sea, There was no SRS in competition, so I make bonanza 3 purely for cross-country, safe. When you do the cross-country, let's say in the Alps, For example, then you're going to fly sometimes the lee side, because you fly seven, eight hours, nine hours, and for sure you will go to the lee side a few times. Then there's a lot of turbulence. So my focus was to make the wing very stable. instead of very high speed or high performance. So good enough for

cross-country flying. Then after Bonanza 3, the SRS start. So then again, the Ozone photon was coming and then they start to win every competition. And I say, okay, we have to do something. So this is how the GTO 3 was born. How's your relationship with those old guys? Oh, nothing wrong. I have a good relation with Luca Mons. It's so nice to hear. There's a healthy competition. And I think healthy competition is

Aninder: essential in any community to go in the right direction. Because, of course, dominance of one brand is very good for them. The monopolization is never good for the industry as a whole. So I think with GTO3 coming in and challenging photon dominance, it's just so nice to see as a pilot, as a consumer, that there are more choices to pick up from. Let's talk a little bit about wave leading. You released a video about this R&D that has gone in. It said it has influenced a little bit from the whale fin design, animal whale fin. Tell me, what were the origins of this idea? How did this come to be? This technology has been in the industry since a long time, actually. And this back whale has a big...

Gin Seok Song: how we call it, fins, and then they have these tubercles. And these tubercles, a lot of scientists study about why they have such huge whales as these tubercles. Then they found the tubercle is walking and reaches the tracks. So they are using these tubercles in some kind of fence or... Even in the airplanes. In the airplanes? Yes. Where? In the small airplanes. Oh, really? So when I get this proposal by the professor, then I said, okay, let's try. So this university professor, he was very keen to develop It's a cubicle on Paragliders. So this is how I begin with this $1 million fund. We asked the government, we apply this project, then government to check and then they said, okay, it's

interesting. So they pay $1 million. So we had the money to develop this Wave of Leading Edge. We named it Wave of Leading Edge. But it's actually called the tubercles. So this is how we, in the beginning, we made a few mistakes. We put everywhere the tubercles from the entire wingspan. Then the glide performance was good, but then the wing was spinning very early. and the stalls on the wingtips very quick. And so professor, I asked him, this is not good. Then he discovered that normally the rails has a straight, wing, and then it has tubercles. But our paraglider has a curvature. The wind flow is different. So then we discovered that 60% of the wing span, we put the tubercles, and then the wing tip is normally leading it. So

then this was working perfectly, no stolen wing tips, because we need all the lift and performance in the middle. And the tips are reducing drags. Usually when submarine-style harnesses, cocoon-style harnesses came, the logic that was given was that the fluid, in this case

Aninder: air, flows better on smooth surfaces because there's less drag, there is easier flow of the wind. Tubicles make the surface a little bit rough-pitched, I would say. Do we see tubicle design coming to the harnesses as well in time to come, or is it just the wings that can benefit from this now? I don't think Kubrick could unharness I don't think so. Because I'm talking, let's say, the golf ball analogy. Like, golf ball isn't completely smooth. It has small dimples. Dimples, yeah. Which help it cut through the air in a much more efficient manner. So it is similar to the typical design. Not exactly the same, but it attacks the same level of physics. So do we see something changing in these super

Aninder: smooth cocoon-style harnesses that we have in time to come as well? If you find these dimple fabrics, for sure it will work. And we were already

Gin Seok Song: discussing about these matters. But today, what's urgently needed is today. With already these submarine harness types, is already there. Actually, if you can reduce this arm where you are at full speed, you have to hold the bee and you always walk. So your hands, this is a huge drag actually. So if you can reduce this arm's drag while you are at full speed, this will be happening soon. Are we seeing that rake handles

Aninder: being controlled from into the cocoon at some point in time? No, I don't think so. It's very dangerous. It reacts very slow. Some brands want to

Gin Seok Song: do the arms going down. Like a closed canopy is what my question was. Are we looking at paralleling going into closed canopies eventually in

Aninder: time to come? What do you mean closed canopies? Something which has a covering over the pilot's head as well, right? Now we are just covered up

Gin Seok Song: to the chest. Oh, okay. You mean the cockpit completely, like the sailplane. Correct, correct. One day, some other, maybe some brand will develop it. Yeah. I quickly want to touch upon the topic, Mr. Jin, about performance versus price optimization. A million dollars is a

Aninder: huge blessing in any company's R&D. Paragliding itself is an expensive sport. The customers obviously complain about money all the time, that the gear is getting expensive. The manufacturers say that the raw materials are getting expensive, and the yarn makers and the ones who supply raw materials are saying they're doing the best they can. When it comes to making performance, is cost a big factor which holds back performance? If somebody comes out and says that, all right, I will set aside 10 million or 15 million, then can we see super performing paragliders? I think it's still that there is a chance to develop more performance. But in the same time, the key of success today,

Gin Seok Song: paraglider, is safety. And we increase the performance a lot, but in the same time, the wing is safer and easier to fly compared to 20 years ago, 30 years ago. Today, the technology's developed in a very super good way. All the pilots, they don't feel it, but Before, when it's very strong condition, you wouldn't fly because too turbulence. But today, like yesterday, so strong wind, nothing happened because it was easy and stable. So that's the benefit of paragliders. And so I think the... We're always concerned about performance, but in the same time, how easy you can handle and how stable and you feel comfortable in the air. That's very important for the market. Okay, tell me a little bit about

Aninder: safety. What defines paraglider safety? Because we keep on moving slowly towards less collapsible wings, like the ones which are harder to collapse. And we have technologies like RAST coming in. And what was the thing that Reflex... coming in there are some technologies like this which help the pilot in reducing the collapses but at a lot of times collapse is also a safety mechanism because otherwise there's a chance of falling into the canopy completely so where is the sweet spot and how do you as a designer look for that sweet spot when it comes to letting the wings collapse because the turbulence otherwise will be very dangerous we learn the last 20-30 years about these factors and we are

Gin Seok Song: flying with a paraglider need to be collapsed. If the paraglider is not collapsing, then it will be more dangerous, actually. But what's important is after collapse, when the wing is slowly opening or not huge impulsive openings and like pastime, then it's more dangerous. So we learn how to design wings more smooth after collapse, and this is internal structure, and then also the inlets, shapes, and all these are developed last 20 years. So actually the internal structure was developed in a good way, safe, and everything was more easy. Dumped. Yeah, more, the gliders were more dumped, yeah. Okay, a question comes to my mind. Let's say your wing has collapsed 50% or 60%. Your one side of

Aninder: the riser is gone. So now the whole of the tension is on the other side. Is it theoretically possible that if the turbulence of the air mass is very disturbed, it can collapse the flying side as well and your glider can crumple into a small ball? Possible, yes. If there is so much

Gin Seok Song: turbulence, then this could happen. But today, if you have such a huge collapse and The wing will not completely destroy, even if in the strong turbulence, if you hold the brakes correctly. And if the wings are opening, radically impulsive opening, then it's more dangerous because then this the very impulsive opening will react, the other side collapse. Then you might go crash. Cascaded. Yeah. I saw that in China last month and during the World Cup, the takeoff was very cliff and very dangerous. So one of Chinese girl flew this photon and then after huge collapse one side and then opening was incredible. Impulsive, violent, and then whole glider just collapsed like this, and then

crushed the cliff. Was she okay? She hurt a bit, but I don't know what's happening. But it's air. It happens with modern technology wings. But compared to before, it is now more... Safer at gunpoint. I agree. Don't you think we can have some sort of a slider technology like the skydiving

Aninder: canopies have to reduce the impact of these violent... Why is that not being implemented by paragliding? Slider technology is completely

Gin Seok Song: different. You can use it on the parachute, but not paragliding. I just want to add on the wave leading edge. The wave leading edge is the airflow. You read about the wave leading edge. So the airflow, usually when air comes in the leading edge and then right after the leading edge there's separations and they create the turbulence. With the wave leading edge, this separation start quite late so the air is smooth in the leading edge part so the wing has no shooting tendency at all after some situation so we discovered that this wave leading edge is helping really a lot after the huge collapse then the glider reaction is very very slow because this separation stays very bad. If it's here near the

leading edge then the glider will shoot. So that's a huge difference with the wave leading edge. So we are keep developing the whole range of the wings with the wave leading edge. That's what I was going to ask, actually. Thank you for bringing us back to the topic. That we see

Aninder: two-liner technology going only from open class to triple C down to E and D, and now even C-class gliders are pretty much only being sold in two-liners, where the money is lying for the manufacturers. Michael Nessler, probably somebody that you know already, he has been a designer for the German brand of SWIFT. Swing. Swing. I beg your pardon. And for anybody who's interested in listening, just scroll up in the index. We have had a very informative podcast with Michael Nestor earlier as well. He's the first one to bring two-liner into E and B class and even get it certified with approval from DHV, the German watchdog. in this. So are we looking at two-liner technologies and new

technologies like wave leading edge finally making their way to beginner class gliders as well? Because they do promise safety, but at the same time, they also promise more performance, which eventually translates into more fun for anybody going out and chasing airtime.

Gin Seok Song: Currently, the EN rule is if you use the folding lines, With a two-liner, you cannot make a collapse without folding lines. So the Nestle was clever to put one line on the front, which is just hanging, and then that's why they passed E and B. But actually it's not a two-liner. Wave leading edge is different. Wave leading edge, I can use it in all. We, in the beginning, we test in wind tunnel with higher spectra ratio. And now we have now tested in the wind tunnels with a lower spectra ratio. So we have new tubercle shapes for the lower spectra ratio. So we are actually working on the high B 2.5 lines, we say. Wave leading edge wing, which is Explorer 3, is coming. So this one, we know the benefit of wave leading

edge. So what's wrong with the low aspect ratio? Mr. Jin, there was a very interesting development before the wave leading edge that I saw on your

Aninder: website. And that was a new fabric. Now fabric industry is mostly dominated by Dominico and Pocher. That is their foster suppliers. A lot of brands use them. A lot of suppliers, pilots are also comfortable with them. But Jin was the first one again to challenge the status quo and bring out a fabric called Muenjin fabric. Yes. Can you please tell us what was this all about and how did that happen? Actually, the Myeongjin

Gin Seok Song: is a very old company who used to produce for the military parachute fabrics. The older fabrics today for paraglider today is nylon double six. Everybody knows that. The low material come from DuPont. It's everybody use that one. And... So the parachute industry has been, I don't know how many years, they are using this ripstop technology. Just today, paragliding fabric is, paraglider fabric is how to coat These are the raw materials. That's the technology. So it's just the coating which is actually being researched upon? Not only the coating, also how to weave the ribs and things like this. So they design to make it light and strong enough and also air porosity. So they... In the beginning,

Myeongjin didn't want to take any risk. So they are okay to make a bottom surface fabric and then profile fabric in the beginning. But they are afraid to use the fabric on top surface because of air porosity and so on. So we think encourage them to develop it. And then, so they were, yeah, we spent some money. Jingle had to pay them to develop the fabrics. So finally they made the fabric and then we made the, test the wings. For example, the one school glider and one tandem gliders. And we send it to one in France and one in very like a desert, rough condition. The ground

is not grass and things like this. Then we get the wing back and check the porosity, strength again. Then we test again as it took some years to reach the fabrics on top. And then we were sure that this is because we've done enough tests. So the Myungjin start to coming in the market. And we make a special contract when we spend money because we pay the development. So when the fabric comes and only we use two years exclusively, then they cancel after two years. So we are still doing... The light fabric we are working, like 21 grams or whatever. So we have a special contract and because we test everything for them. So they, Myeongjin and Jingle Light is quite close. So then after Myeongjin,

when Jingle Light was using Myeongjin, then everybody contacted Myeongjin. So many other brands now using the Myeongjin too. How is it

Aninder: different or better than the other offerings? We have very strong relations. And then also the guy, his father was a very good engineer.

Gin Seok Song: And then his son is now... take over the jobs and then he's very clever and then he is quite listen to us. So when I ask him to develop this and they're really coming to do. So a lot of the brand like Dominico is hardly order them to what to do. They have their rules and they just that's it. Dominico is impossible to communicate for me. So, Myeongjin is the same country, so... Like a household, right? Yeah, that's why we can develop the one which we want. So, this is very good for us. Do things like... I see you're doing a lot of in-house things, let's say, with the Jin Lab

Aninder: opening up. Are you willing to open up this at a certain stage later on? Of course, at the royalties being paid out, so that eventually, in future, other brands can try and benefit from these technologies. Yeah, I'm okay to do that, because there is certainly the benefit, Wave Leading

Gin Seok Song: Edge is helping for the safety and whatever, so we actually have a patent on it, but if anyone can use Wave Leading Edge, but we wait until some years, for sure. You wait until at least half of the podium is, or the complete podium is filled with boomerangs once again, the good old

Aninder: times. I hope so, yeah. Why not? Why not? Mr. Jin, I see that you have been one of the industry leaders in a lot of, you know, tech. Timer kites are coming out with all their force. What do you think about this new technology, this new way of having fun? Actually, the Tim Bollinger is

Gin Seok Song: working on it. Right. He likes to play these things, so we are using the kite, one of the kites from Hans Bollinger. And then his father, Tim Bollinger. So Tim is using the kite and we modified this kite and he's now testing this one. Yes. But I don't know. This is already, the Skywalk has a huge market for that. So... We are not very interested in coming because first we want to take over the SRS and then World Cup. My first priority. And then we also, in the same time, we should make a very good school gliders and intermediate, which is the most selling part. And

then also the tandem is a huge market for jean gliders. So we are the leader in the tandem business in the market. I think you must have

Aninder: definitely seen the BB, what was it? Golden? What is the name of the brand? Gradient. Gradient, yeah. What was it about that wing that made it so famous in tandem? I don't know. It was light and an easy takeoff. easy to flare that's all for the tandem is what all you need is that but

Gin Seok Song: today the fuse four our fuse one two three four is the huge portion in the market So I think we are the leader in the tandem business now. And then now Gradient, I don't know. It shut down. It shut down and the super bought it. And after that, they are quiet. I think the car riding

Aninder: industry is a pretty brutal market. And that is what inspires me about you, that you have not only stayed relevant, but you have stayed competitive and are still challenging. Yeah, yeah. Which brings me to one of the final topics of our talk, because we'll be running out of time very soon. Boom 13. First of all, the color looks fantastic. Thank you. I was gliding with you the other day, and I was like, oh, that wing. I could definitely look at that for a while, but then you zoomed past pretty effortlessly. We are in two very different classes anyways. Please tell us about Boom 13, without letting out any secrets. Oh, yeah, it's been... I started to develop this boomerang after boomerang 12 with a

Gin Seok Song: wave leading edge. It was very successful. We won one World Cup, fourth, second, third, with a wave leading edge boom 12. Clean sweep. Clean

Aninder: sweep of the point. Yes. That was a very big success. And then Ozone came with the submarines. Yes. So they win again. Okay. So then I start to make

Gin Seok Song: the wings. It took some time to come with the Boom 13. Yeah, today, what you need is the competition is almost full speed. You never go trim speed. You almost never go, honestly. I think I'll be surprised even in thermals, people are, how late they are letting off the bar. Yeah, this is a really incredible competition. So... This is the key of the winning wings. How fast you can go and then how much better glide in full speed. That's the big things. So we did actually the little wind tunnel test and then we work a lot for the wing tips. Yeah, I think now quite good. We will

see after this competition. Do you have an approximate date in your mind when you think you will be able to finish the product and bring it home? Oh no, it's done, finished. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, the certification is done and we are certified six days before the World Championship starts. So we are definitely, we will send this wing for the World Championship. So here is the only one glider I fly when I have a better result.

But I'm an old man and my goal is to show my wings during the thermalings and kind of things. Yesterday I was climbing better than a few guys in the gaggle, so I was happy. I think you flying a triple C on full bar at this stage itself is quite a humble brag to say the least. Yeah, like an old man like me. Don't call yourself old, sir. I think you're young at heart, and that is what really matters. I forgot to talk about Carrera, because

Aninder: Carrera has a B-class certification, but a very nice handling. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Because obviously there are a lot of market players, pilots who are interested in things of that certification. Carrera was designed for C-class initially, but then

Gin Seok Song: during the EN test, the test house say, you have no C, it's completely CB.

Aninder: That was a welcome surprise. Yeah, it was a surprise then. I said, okay, then we take it as B. Because in the marketing, I discussed with my

Gin Seok Song: marketing teams, and B market is for sure much bigger than C market. And no one has a spectra ratio of 6. on the B glider. And so I said, okay, let's see how it goes. So we launched and yeah, the Carrera was just boom, like crazy. It was big success. And today the biggest market is the B class market. Yes. So we are now making two different B, low B and high B. It's coming before Cupica. Wow. So I'm pretty busy to finish this one. I can

Aninder: imagine. And I'm very thankful that you gave me an hour- long conversation out of your busy schedule because I've been chasing you for more than a year now. And finally, it was such a welcome surprise when I bumped into you at this World Cup. I was like, yes! Thank you very much. Mr. Jim, before I let you go, we have a tradition on our show where I ask my guests to share one flight that has remained with them throughout their flying career so far. And with almost five decades of Shazang airtime, I know it's going to be hard, but if you can share one flight, the memory of

one flight with our audiences, I'll be very thankful. Memorial. Memory of one flight, how it went or what was, if you remember anything. My best

Gin Seok Song: memory was during the World Championship in Switzerland, Velbier. I was flying alone, somehow. What year? 1993, in Switzerland. That was during the World Championship. Somehow I was leading and alone, so I was low in the valley. It was almost like very steep mountains, so I was like soaring up. And then I met the day, how you call it, the year. Deer with the beak. Okay, so the animal deer with big horns. Antlers and stuff like

Aninder: that. Yes, big one. So I thought maybe this is a male and then must be some females. And I looked down, there's a female was climbing. Such a stiff.

Gin Seok Song: So when I make one soaring, I went to the other side, but when I come back in, this animal was there. Wow. And then it was just the feeling, it touches my heart. The animal was look my eyes and eye contact. And this feeling was amazing. You can't explain the feeling with nature. how beautiful paragliding is. This is amazing. And one more I can say is, it was in Russia, Kurai Valley, there's a competition, and we flew there with the huge eagles, like big vulture, almost two and a half meters wingspan. I was flying with this vulture, And somehow my direction was to go to the west, but this vulture was flying a little bit different direction. I followed this vulture, and then actually I did a faster

goal than I was straight. And then with the vulture, we circling together, and then I was afraid that if the vulture is attack, like Australia, They whipped the wings and kind of things. But this vulture was very gentle and flying, so find the thermal for me. This kind of nature feeling, this is the beauty of the paragliding. I can totally relate to this because it happened to me once in my early days in flying.

Aninder: In beer building, we have Griffin vultures, massive, as you said, two, three meters. I was still learning to thermal. And I had this vulture circle super tight, and I would never bury my break so hard and take a circle so tight because I thought I would stall the wing. But I was like, no, if he's circling, then he's in the core, then I can trust him. And I did that, and within two or three circles, we gained a lot. And I just started screaming. And then the virtual looks me in the eye and that eye contact. Yeah, this is, oh. Eye contact with wildlife out in the nature is

magical. Magic, that's it. Completely agree. This is magic and touches your heart. 100%. That visual has stuck with me until now as well. I usually say this with a lot of guests that have quite a few experience that there's no one single episode that will do justice to the amount of knowledge that you can share. But for now, we have come to an end of this episode. So heartfelt thanks for being on the show. It means the world to me, and I'm sure the audiences can relate to the same as well. We wish you all the very luck and simply cannot wait for you to bring out your

awesomeness to the audiences. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hey everyone, for those of you who have listened this far, I just wanted to drop in a note of thanks because you guys are the ones who are actually making the difference. It means the world to me whenever I see audience retention rates remain high all the way to the end. And I'd like to add on by saying that if you have liked the content that you just consumed, do consider liking, subscribing, and dropping a rating wherever possible, because that is one way we can let the algorithms of all of these streaming platforms know that this episode is worthy of being pushed out to more pilots in the community. So collectively, you and I

can make this sport a safer and a more fun place to be. Well, on that note, thank you once again for joining me today. And I'm really looking forward to connecting with you in the next episode as well. Until then, I'm going to say what I always say, and that is stay tuned, stay excited, because this magic is just getting started.